User talk:Marchjuly

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Welcomeen-ja

Hi, Marchjuly. I saw your post about Template:Welcomeen-ja at WikiProject Japan. Gramatically I think ウィキペディア･プロジェクトへの参加ありがとうございます。is OK. Of course your version is also OK. But there may be some other problems, like 満たしておりません? For that I would say "満たしていないようです". I could suggest some other things too, but I've concluded that I'm never going to be as good as native speakers at this stuff. So I thought I'd post it on a translators forum that I read. Would it be OK if they rewrote it however they liked?

Also, this is going to be posted to User pages, right? Say when an edit patroller comes across some obviously hopeless English. Just thought I should check on that before asking. Thanks. – Margin1522 (talk) 18:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

@Margin1522: Thanks for the message. Yes, I think the template is for posting on user pages as a welcome message. I think it can be posted by anyone who thinks it might be helpful, but I'm not sure.

I'm also still not sure about the grammar of "参加ありがとうございます". Nouns like "参加" are typically turned into verbs by adding "する", which in this case would be "参加する". In (very) polite speech, however, the prefix "ご" can be added to these noun-verbs to show respect towards the other person. When this is done, the "する" is dropped so you get the grammatically correct "ご参加", but even "ご参加ありがとうございます" might be seen as still a little weird sounding by certain native speakers. Not as weird as without the "ご", but you probably still need a form of "いただく" or "くださる" to be totally correct and polite. At least that's my understanding, and that's pretty much how I hear the "ご" + "noun" construction being used everyday. This template is attempting to use polite Japanese when referring to the other person's participation as if you are politely asking them to participate in something in the future (that is why "ありがとうございます" and not "ありがとうございました" is appropriate). In this case, the person placing the template (i.e., Wikipedia) is showing respect to the reader (or editor) by placing them in a position higher than themselves ("目上"). If I wanted to thank you for politely posting on my talk page, I could say "ご返事ありがとうございました", "ご返事いただきありがとうございした" or "ご返事いただきましてありがとうございした", but I wouldn't say "返事ありがとうございました". The meaning would be understood for sure, but it literally wouldn't feel right phrasing it that way. As for "満たしておりません", the way of thinking is the exact opposite. The person placing the template is humbling themselves before the reader by using the humble version of the verb "いる". Wikipedia is essentially saying "Unfortunately, we regret to say that you edit does not satisfy our humble standards" which is why I think "おりません" is OK.

Anyway, I too am not a native speaker and my post was just meant to get feedback from others. I believe that WP:BOLD also applies to templates, but it might be a good idea to post on the template's talk page before changing it just as a way of making sure. I'm not sure how changing the wording of a template affects stuff. - Marchjuly (talk) 23:06, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Note: I think we should move this to WT:JAPAN#Template:Welcomeen-ja to keep all discussion related to this in the same place to make it easier for others to comment and follow.- Marchjuly (talk)

Oh, I see. So they didn't specifically ask to have it improved. In that case maybe we shouldn't try to make it perfect. That way when the user gets it, they can think "My English may not be very good, but their Japanese isn't so great either." :) About the missing words, yes, they are missing, but you do often see this kind of expression online. I've quit worrying about whether these things are verbs or nouns. They just are what they are and you're supposed to be able to deal with it. About the おりません, I would say that belongs together with 満たして, which is theirs, so you want to be careful with the おりません. – Margin1522 (talk) 17:56, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

@Margin1522: Thanks for another reply. Nobody asked me to improve the template; I just came across it by accident and felt the the Japanese being used could be improved. I'm not sure what "missing words" you're referring to, but I was simply referring to the the grammatical construction "ご" + "noun-verb", which is used in polite Japanese. If I want to turn the noun "参加" into a verb, I can added "する" and conjugate it like any other "する" verb. If I want to say "Please join in (participate)", I could say "参加してください", but not really "参加ください". The meaning would be understood, but grammatically it is incorrect; It would be like saying "Participation please" in English. Same thinking applies for "ありがとうございます": the meaning of "参加ありがとうございます" is understood, but it's not really grammatically correct.On the other hand, "ご参加ください", which is a little politer than "参加してください", is used a lot depending upon the situation, but even then many people add a form of "いただく" or "くださる" before the "ありがとうございます" to make it less rough sounding. Regarding　"おる" as in "ておる" is the humble form of "いる", so "満たしておりません" is the humble way of saying "満たしていません", which is why I think it is OK as used in the template. Anyway, thanks for the comments. As you say, the meaning of the template is understand as it is currently written so there's no pressing need to change it. - Marchjuly (talk) 11:24, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Slednecks and sockpuppets

Thanks for your efforts at Slednecks. I just thought I'd let you know, in case you weren't aware, that ISeahawk has been confirmed by Checkuser to be a sockpuppet of Andrewwikiedit and is now indefinitely blocked. Andrewwikiedit, who created the article, is now blocked for a week. --AussieLegend (✉) 10:57, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the update AussieLegend. I was aware of the sock investigation, but I try to assume good faith to the very end. - Marchjuly (talk) 11:01, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

That was fairly apparent, which is why I didn't say anything earlier. --AussieLegend (✉) 11:02, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Robert S. Nelsen Wiki page

Hi Marchjuly,

Thank you for taking the time to share your expertise in fixing the page I had created for Robert S. Nelsen. I have made several changes as suggested by you. Can you please review it one more time and let me know if you can now remove the banner that shows up on top of it. This is the direct link to the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_S._Nelsen

Thank you. TrueBRONC (talk) 22:36, 16 December 2014 (UTC)