Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ecclesiastical heraldry

Ecclesiastical heraldry

This article has been through a peer review with little comment. WP:GAC suggests that articles over 20kb be submitted here instead. This article is comprehensive (history and current practice), has contemporary inline citations, and is stable. Most of the images are from Commons; the Eastern coats of arms are the only two available in Category:Orthodox ecclesiastical heraldry. The topic is perhaps too specialized for the Main Page, but "featured articles, despite being featured, may be marked so as not to be showcased on the Main Page." Gimmetrow 04:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Object. Lead could be longer, article itself a bit short. External links section looks weird with only one link. A See Also section would be useful. No references in 'Crosier' section. — Wackymacs 07:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added refs to the Crosier section and two online sources to external links, and a See Also section. Thanks for the feedback! Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• Object. Decent article, but not fully comprehensive at the moment. Jeronimo 08:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
  • It is unclear why the article is divided in "Western tradition" and "Eastern tradition", especially since "Western" is 75% of the article and "Eastern" is rather short. It may make more sense to mix these (like Catholic and Anglican are mixed) making sections of the current subsection, adding one for mantles.

It seemed natural to divide it this way, but I see what you suggest and will give it a try. Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Rewritten along this idea. Gimmetrow 18:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• • How/where/when were/are the coats of arms are used? The first picture's caption gives a good example of this, but more is needed.

At one point I had found a good image of a document seal but the image was large (>1Mb) and made the page very slow for me to load. Will try to find that one image again. Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Was unable to find this image again, but did add an image of Leo XI's arms. Gimmetrow 18:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Are there any notable differences between ecclesiastical heraldry (and its usage) and "normal" heraldry? If so, discuss, if not mention that.

That's almost exactly what this article is intended to be about: the devices that are associated primarily with church heraldry and not used much in "regular" heraldry. Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Rewrote lead to try to clarify this. Gimmetrow 18:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Catholic, Eastern and Anglican churches are mentioned, what about the other Christian churches (Protestant, Koptic)? Do they use heraldry, or if they don't, why not?

Yes, other churches use crests and coats of arms, but mainly use crosses and color/tincture symbolism to distinguish from corporate or non-ecclesiastical symbolism. Aside from the obvious (churches which don't use the mitre wouldn't use it for heraldry), literature about this is short and I'm not sure what could be said without OR. Eastern heraldry is relatively short for a similar reason - coats are often not much different than "regular" arms which use the mantle/shield form. Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Eg, compare a typical Eastern secular coat with this coat from the article. Gimmetrow 18:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• • It needs to be a bit more accessible at a few places as not all (heraldic) terms are properly explained. For example, the term galero is mentioned in the lead but not explained until the section about galeros, and lozenge (Shield subsection) is not explained at all (except on the linked wiki page).

Tried to address. Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Are you sure all the pictures can be used? Some of them have a tag that seems to indicate otherwise, but I'm no expert on this. Jeronimo 08:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm not sure, but I am mainly concerned about the Eastern ones, and as they are the only two available I think they qualify as fair use. Gimmetrow 11:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

No, they are fine. 2-3 'fair use' images per article is fine, as long as they have a fair use rationale. — Wackymacs 12:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Again thanks for the feedback! I've been trying to get feedback for a few weeks. Gimmetrow 18:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Great improvements, I withdraw my objection and support. One thing though: "In the Byzantine tradition colors have a mystical." in the "Tincture" section seems like it is missing some words. Jeronimo 09:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)