Talk:Second Battle of El Alamein

The tactical details and the description of the battle by the original author left no room for improvement :). Added the first bit "The Situation" to juice the introduction up with some figures, and added Rommel´s sick leave.

Nov 3rd 2003 cyberhunne

I removed this from the 'deception operations' category. Virtually all major battles in WWII will have had an element of deception, so if the category is to be useful it should only refer to operations that were entirely (or mainly) about deception. DJ Clayworth 15:34, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

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Artillery Preparation

The article says 882 guns fired about 600 rounds each during the opening barrage - that's 529,000 rounds fired. Can anyone confirm that? Seems like a lot of ammo to expend even by Allied standards. It's much more than what was fired at the beginning of Goodwood or Cobra, for example. Just wondering. DMorpheus 15:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Verification

User:Kerbabs made some edits whose accuracy should be checked by some1 knowledgeable. Ksenon 21:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

"Allies" vs. "British" ?

I am not sure why the latest edit replaces all usages of "British" or "Britain" with the less-specific "Allied". Isn't it the case that almost all the troops on the Allied side in this battle were in fact British or British empire? There was also a brigade of French and some very small other units, so I suppose the argument can be made that "Allied" is the more accurate term. But the allied force was overwhelmingly British and it seems to me better than they be so described. Just my two cents. DMorpheus 15:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

In the first place, it is technically incorrect to refer to Indians, Australians, South Africans or New Zealanders (as opposed to UK forces) as British. Moreover it is often regarded as offensive. The official collective term at the time was "British Commonwealth". In the second place I think you'll find that the UK forces were in a minority numerically. Grant65 | Talk 23:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd personally prefer to use Commonwealth then, as "Allies" includes the United States and the Soviet Union (among others). Oberiko 15:08, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, "Commonwealth" is both accurate and specific enough. "Allied" is unnecessarily vague although it is not strictly inaccurate. DMorpheus 16:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I think you'll find that use of "British Commonwealth" is wrong. Although founded in the 1920s, it then only included the (independent) predominantly white Dominions (Canada, Newfoundland, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa). This excluded India and Rhodesia, both of which had units in the 8th Army. Also, correctly speaking, the Ghurkas, coming from Nepal, were/ are neither British nor Indian. The use of "Empire" has been used to include all such states, but recognition of the part that was played by all states would be appropriate and add to the information. Although the Greek element was small (a battalion?), it maintained Greek status as a belligerent and the Poles provided a highly effective and motivated division. Just my two penn'orth. ("Allied" is wholly accurate, just as it is in relation to Italy and Northern Europe.) Folks at 137 17:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

My 2 cents: In my references, "Allied" is commonly used when speaking of big-picture stuff like "Allied victory..." and "British", "American", "Russian" are used when describing particular Allied armies. The Allied army involved is almost universally called the "British Eighth Army", not the "British Commonwealth's Eighth Army". While it is valuable to mention the composition of the troops under British command, I think common usage should prevail here.--Toms2866 02:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I have 2 cents too: I hate seeing AIF forces referred to as British but I believe the army is referred to as the British 8th Army. It was comprised of commonwealth and british forces, but its named british. Thats my view anyhow.... But please can't we use the term Allied where appropriate? It was an allied offensive after all, not a british commonwealth offensive. The allied victory in the battle oif the coral sea isnt confusing for brits even though there were no british forces there, why should americans have trouble with it in this instance? aussietiger 15:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)