Talk:Abdominal obesity

Quote from article: There is a widespread myth that "beer bellies" are the result of a fatty or enlarged liver. While excessive consumption of any alcohol can lead to fatty liver or even irreversible liver damage, this does not cause the fatty paunch associated with a beer belly. While obesity and overweight have their own health risks, they are not indicative of damage to the liver.

Just how often to beer bellies occur in situations where fatty/enlarged liver is not the case? I can only really think of two acoholics I know that are or were at some point otherwise in normal shape and thus have beer bellies (the other alcoholics I know are overweight all around), while I can't think of any people with beer bellies that aren't alcoholics. I don't know of any reason this would be called a "myth". It is, after all, called a beer belly because it occurs in alcoholics.

I suppose it depends on how you define a "beer belly." If you limit the term to alcoholics then of course most of them will have fatty, or even scarred, livers,—not because of their bellies, but because of their alcoholism. But most people use the term to refer to a potbelly on any beer drinker (or sometimes on drinkers of other beverages), even if they only drink in moderation. At the same time many moderate drinkers and non-drinkers have potbellies. In fact most Americans above a certain age do (in fact most people in general given access to adequate nutrition gain weight in middle age). You wouldn't call a nondrinker's potbelly a "beer belly." A more accurate term is a "calorie (kilojoule) belly." The same applies to most drinkers. While beer does have significant energy content, and will cause weight gain when consumed in excess, it is actually a lot lower in energy density than orange juice, wine, or milk. Often drinkers will eat fries, pizza, burgers, chips, and other junk food along with beer that contains more calories than their beer, and thus is at least as much to blame for their bellies. In heavy drinkers, there is evidence that alcohol consumption increases the formation of visceral fat (fat around the small intestines and liver). This may also be implicated in some "beer bellies," however this is still fat, and is not the same thing as a fatty, enlarged, or scarred liver. (It is possible, though not necessarily reliable, to detect an abnormal liver by palpating, but the liver itself would not ordinarily cause a visible potbelly, even in alcoholics.) And there are counter-examples as well. Extreme alcoholics may be very malnourished and have trouble keeping food down, having displaced most of their energy intake with alcohol. I've seen some very skinny, ewnd-stage alcoholics indeed. NTK 03:27, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Accuracy Tag

There is nothing innacurate on the page in question this page. Alcohol contains calories, but drinking alcohol doesn't necessarily lead to weight gain, according to extensive medical research. In fact, many studies report a small reduction in weight for women who drink. There are several hypotheses for why alcohol istself doesn't sem to increase witght, but they haven't been tested as of yet. A discussion of the issue and complete references are found at Alcohol, Calories, and Weight.

User:David Justin

There does not appear to be a consensus for tag and I think I'll remove it. Marskell 23:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

This article isn't about alcohol and weight gain; it's about beer bellies.

There's only been one study of beer bellies, and that study concludes that they are not caused by beer:

They found no link between the amount of beer they drink and the size of their stomachs.

Writing in the European Journal of Clinical Nutrition, they said claims people are obese because they drink too much beer are wrong. [1]

Appeals to folklore and "common sense" are as irrelevant here as they are in the peptic ulcer article. [2] It's not our job to disseminate vulgar errors.

chocolateboy 22:11, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Proposed Update for Accuracy:

I would argue that the term "Beer Belly" is nothing more than a societal colloquialism for "physical human trait characterized by a horizontal overhang of fat above the waist, with little apparent fat on the rest of the body". Not being a medical or scientific term to begin with, i think any further linking of "beer belly" with beer explicitly is inaccurate. Beer belly is caused by any weight gain, assuming the correct body type. Since drinking alcohol is far from the "cause" of being overweight, the direct causality that is implied here is inaccurate (the crux of the entire second paragraph is that poor nutritional habits, lack of exercise, and a high calorie diet leads to weight gain).

Since no edits or discussion regarding the accuracy tag has taken place in a few months, I will wait 24 hours then make the following changes: Remove any causality links between drinking and "beer belly", replacing them with the correct causality of poor nutritional habits, lack of exercise, and a high calorie diet leads to weight gain. This excepts the (correct) link between drinkers and the creation of the term itself. I will check to see if the removed content (beer calorie content, etc.) is needed in the Beer article, but i doubt it. (Radiomanlaughs 17:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC))

Note - Uncited Reference: Also, in research i realized that a significant portion of this article is lifted from the following [WebMD] article, so after edits (assuming it is still referenced) it will be cited as a source. (Radiomanlaughs 17:27, 11 January 2006 (UTC))

I'm with Radiomanlaughs. The article has come round to where beer is no longer presented as the sole cause of the phenomenon known as the "beer belly." However when applied to those who drink a lot of beer (and consume the attendant snacks) the term has a nice ring and will remain relevant, therefore should be covered here. I'm going to be bold and remove the Accuracy Tag. RomaC 07:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Advanced alcoholics

My impression (strictly unscientific, I grant you) is that, while many heavy drinkers (beer, wine and spirits all) can become quite fat, the truly advanced alcoholic is usually rather thin. The typical non-alcoholic drinker will typically down his suds in conjunction with burgers, pizza, and other alcohol-friendly foods, thus compounding his calorie intake. The advanced alcoholic, however, has gone beyond such trivialities and eschews eating to concentrate on the one and only thing important to him in life--booze. That's why you see scrawny skid-row drunks with the "alcoholics' ass," etc. --bamjd3d

Actually, that is fairly accurate. The advanced stages of alcoholism feature severe malnutrition.

NPOV

Article is NPOV due to beer industry lobbers. If you take a wider look of research, the overall view is that beer belly results of consumption of alcohol drinks (often beer) AND food. Alcohol drinks such as beer increase appetite, so there is a "multiplier effect" in a play. I don't have time to fix article now, but the current version looks like an apology for beer though it is true that the name of the beer belly is a slightly misleading --128.214.205.5 13:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

See the comments above and the article. If you have some research at your disposal that refutes the references in the article, and has been published by a reliable source, then please cite it. Incidentally, NPOV means "neutral point of view", which is one of the cornerstones of Wikipedia policy, along with Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Verifiability.

chocolateboy 08:56, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about the original posters sources, but check out - [3][4]

Why does pot belly redirect here?

that seems stupid. people who starve, and develop distension in their stomach or intestinal regions don't have beer bellies.

71.56.118.93 08:13, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree -- there are a number of reasons why 'pot belly' should not redirect here. A general term should not redirect to a specific one. RomaC 14:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Fatty liver myth

Surprised to see fatty liver contribution to beer belly described as myth. In my mid-30's I got rid of my beer belly inside 8 weeks by following a liver cleansing diet and doing a liver flush. I had tried everything else (including light rugby training) and lost some subcutaneous fat, but this was the thing that worked on the intra-abdominal fat (23 lb). And throughout it I kept on drinking. I'm satisfied that the liver is the key to this condition, but I've only got original research to go on. I recommend Sandra Cabot's approach.--80.4.252.114 20:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure it's a myth?

The liver contains a special enzyme (alcohol dehydrogenase) that breaks down alcohols into acetaldehyde, which is turned into acetic acid by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, and then yet another enzyme converts the acetate into fats or carbon dioxide and water. The fats are mostly deposited locally which leads to the characteristic "beer belly"

That's from the effects of alcohol on the body page, this page and that can't both be right...

Exactly. This page is POV, big time.

Yeah. From the getgo, the author equated beer belly with calories. Then argued that beer has less calories than soda. There are just too many problems with this article. 1. calories is related to weight, not body shape. a 180 pound body builder can have a different body than a 180 pound slob. 2. less calories than soda is not a good argument, as we know how much calories soda has. 3. there is good evidence that high pure carb consumption contribute to fatty waistline in men, and we know beer has almost pure carb.

Regular soft drinks is actually incredibly unhealthy too. Loads of sugar, caffeine and chemicals does not a healthy beverage make.