Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alakzi: Difference between revisions

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This page was last edited by Izkala (contribs | logs) at 11:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC) (9 years ago)[reply]

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+{{db-attack|blanked=yes}}
-<noinclude>__TOC__</noinclude>
-{{SPIarchive notice|Alakzi}}
-{{SPIpriorcases}}
-===13 August 2015===
-{{SPI case status|checked}}
-;Suspected sockpuppets
-* {{checkuser|1=Webdrone}}
-<!-- You may duplicate the templates above ({{checkuser}} and {{checkIP}}) to list more accounts-->
-*[http://tools.wmflabs.org/betacommand-dev/cgi-bin/uc?uc=Alakzi User compare report] <small>''Auto-generated every hour.''</small>
-*[http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py Editor interaction utility]
-{{megaphone duck}} Alakzi mentions a sense of entitement[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Give_%27em_enough_rope&diff=prev&oldid=675934471] in a discussion, linking to an esay Webdrone created  on the subject just moments before, their first edit since the two of them worked on a DYK for [[Joe Eula]], just after Webdrone became autoconfirmed in late June. Just as suddenly, without any apparent communication between them, Alakzi creates multiple shortcuts to this brand-new essay. Similar editing histories as well. If you check their histories each user started out editing Greek-related articles before delving into yelling at people in project space. <small>I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment, and workng from a tablet with kind of crappy copy/paste abilities, will provide diffs and additional dsetails as time permits today. </small> Givent the length of time Webdrone has been here, a CU to check  for additional sleepers seems warranted. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 19:59, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-====<big>Comments by other users</big>====
-<small>''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Guidance#Defending yourself against claims|Defending yourself against claims]].''</small>
-* I do not consent to having a CU performed on my account. This is not a credible SPI; specifically, [[WP:SOCK]] requires that the alleged sockpuppets are abusively operated, and no evidence to that effect has been presented. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 21:06, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-:*Actually, your consent is not required, since you already consented to the site's [[WP:TOU|terms of use]] by editing here.  The TOU includes the [[WP:Privacy Policy]], which allows limited data to be collected and used under specific circumstances.  For English Wikipedia, these are spelled out on [[WP:CheckUser]].  A clerk will determine if the evidence is sufficient to endorse it for a CU check, regardless of your lack of consent, which will not be considered. [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 21:29, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-::* Irrelevant. I am not not consenting in any legal sense. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 21:34, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-:::* Then you point in making the remark was... rhetorical? [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 21:51, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-::::* It's not rhetorical; it is how I feel. A person who's raped does not consent but can do very little to stop it from happening either. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 21:54, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-:::::*So having your IP adress checked against another user is the equivalent to being raped? [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 21:58, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*The [[Joe Eula]] edit history is troubling, but [[Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know/Archive_116#Template:Did_you_know_nominations.2FJoe_Eula|this]] would be a weird interaction for a master and sock that isn't being used abusively. ~ <b>[[User:BU Rob13|Rob]]</b><sup>[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 21:41, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-** It must be terribly troubling to work with a friend on an article. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 21:43, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-***What is troubling is how Webdrone went away after that, not editing at all. Then, right at the moment you were in the middle of a controversial situation of your own creation, he magically showed back up out of the blue and wrote an essay that seems to actually express ''your'' opinions, and which you were aware of instantly. You could be two people, doesn't matter [[WP:MEAT]] still applies. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 21:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-**** No, [[WP:MEAT]] does not apply. I did not ask him to write any essay; he did so on his own volition. He observed the whole debacle, which prompted him to write the essay. He showed me, and I thought the essay was quite on point, so I linked to it. Would that be all? [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 21:49, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-:::::::So, let me get this straight, he just ''happened'', on hos own, to "observe" the drama you have stirred up, and just ''happened'' to write an essay siding with you, and just ''happened'' to show it to you, (through some sort of off-wiki communication as there is no trace of that on-wiki) before anyone else. That certainly is a string of amazing coincidences. [[User:Beeblebrox|Beeblebrox]] ([[User talk:Beeblebrox|talk]]) 21:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-::::::::(ec) @Alakzi: Can you please point me to where on-wiki Webdrone gave you this information, i.e. that he wrote the article of his own volition, that he "observed the whole debacle, which prompted him to write the essay", and where he pointed you to the essay?  I cannot seem to find it. [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 21:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-:::::::::In fact, I can find no talk pag entries on your talk page from Webdrone, or from you to him on his talk page, nor is their anywhere in Webdrone's contributions where this information is conveyed - although I could be overlooking something.  Where did this transfer of information take place? [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 22:00, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-{{OD}}I initially stated a concern for this based off an edit changing a redirect, [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Samwalton9#Question]]. I discussed with [[USER:Samwalton9]]. [[User:Hell in a Bucket|Hell in a Bucket]] ([[User talk:Hell in a Bucket|talk]]) 21:57, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-* I did not say that he just "happened" to stumble across it; I showed him, obviously. Discussing things that've happened in your life with a friend is not meatpuppetry. What he, in turn, may opt to do with that information isn't something that I can be held accountable for. Furthermore, meatpuppetry is only applicable to non-members of the community; for the love, he's got a DYK under his belt. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 22:01, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-***Can you point out where you showed him, please? [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 22:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-**[[WP:MEAT]] applies to wiki members too. Here again reading the policy helps because the first sentence is "like-minded editors into the dispute" Your friend with the DYK is an editor.  [[User:Hell in a Bucket|Hell in a Bucket]] ([[User talk:Hell in a Bucket|talk]]) 22:02, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*** No, [[WP:MEAT]] does not apply to established editors. [[WP:CANVASS]] might, but that's not the case here, either. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 22:06, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*Alakzi has been indefinitely <s>banned</s> blocked by {{U|NuclearWarfare}}. ~ <b>[[User:BU Rob13|Rob]]</b><sup>[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 22:08, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-**Actually, you mean "blocked" not "banned".  Editors can only be "banned" by ArbCom or the community after discussion, but any admin can indef block an editor. [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 22:11, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-***[[User:NuclearWarfare]] I still think it would be wise for a sleeper sweep for caution. [[User:Hell in a Bucket|Hell in a Bucket]] ([[User talk:Hell in a Bucket|talk]]) 22:13, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-***{{editconflict}} Fixed and noted, although the difference is somewhat semantical. Point is he can't edit for an indefinite period of time. ~ <b>[[User:BU Rob13|Rob]]</b><sup>[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 22:14, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-****Actually, there's more than an semantical difference.  Just as any admin can indef an editor, any admin can '''''remove''''' an indef block.  A '''''ban''''' however can only be overturned by ArbCom, BASC, or the community, depending on who did the banning. An individual admin cannot undo a ban. (Actually, they can physically undo the block that enforces the ban, but they're not supposed to do so.) [[User:Beyond My Ken|BMK]] ([[User talk:Beyond My Ken|talk]]) 22:21, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*I work with Alakzi frequently, and I am quite willing to say that he is one of the most talented template editors we have, and certainly the best with whom I have worked personally in the past six and a half years.  He is excellent at what he does, he has done yeoman's work in the eight months he has been in here, and I can direct anyone who is curious enough to ask to numerous examples of his creations and improvements.  Citing [[WP:NOTHERE]] (an ''essay'') as justification for a block is, therefore, inappropriate.  Having said that, I also recognize that he has a demonstrated anti-authoritarian streak, and recently it has gotten him into increasing degrees of trouble as he has interacted with other editors with whom he disagrees, and with administrators in particular.  I've tried to talk to him about it, and received angry responses that put me back on my heels.  I ''really'' want to help him any way I can, but I'm just not sure how to do that when my interaction is limited to the internet and Wikipedia talk pages.
-:In short, I endorse what Floquenbeam has said in the section below: in the absence of checkuser confirmation of actual sock-puppetry, an indefinite block is simply not appropriate.  What I see is an administrator angrily over-reacting to an inapt metaphor by an angry editor, and jumping the gun.  Furthermore, if Alakzi was not blocked for "sock puppetry," then NuclearWarfare owes the community a detailed explanation why he believes the indefinite block is appropriate.  [[User:Dirtlawyer1|Dirtlawyer1]] ([[User talk:Dirtlawyer1|talk]]) 23:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC) <small>If checkuser confirms actual sock-puppetry, I will strike this comment and let the chips fall where they may.  [[User:Dirtlawyer1|Dirtlawyer1]] ([[User talk:Dirtlawyer1|talk]]) 23:27, 13 August 2015 (UTC)</small>
-* I find it unacceptable that there now remains doubt as to whether we're two different people. Do your fucking job properly, so that this disruptive and disparaging nonsense can be deleted. [[User:Alakzi|Alakzi]] ([[User talk:Alakzi|talk]]) 08:08, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
-** Having done work similar to a CU on another site in the past, this is nothing that Mike can control. Sometimes the captured data is such that you can't conclude they're related or unrelated. For instance, two friends living in the same town but not accessing through the same connection is indistinguishable from one person accessing the site from two different locations in their town. Not sure what led to an inconclusive here, but it is what it is. ~ <b>[[User:BU Rob13|Rob]]</b><sup>[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 10:24, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
-{{Ping|Mike V}} Please explain your grounds for carrying out a check on these accounts. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 09:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
-====<big>Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments</big>====
-*Blocked both users indefinitely. The sexual assault comment above made it abundantly clear that [[WP:NOTHERE|even if they are here with good intentions]] (which I strongly doubt), they are completely incapable of editing in a normal collaborative environment. I would endorse a CheckUser request to look for other sockpuppets, but I am comfortable making my block without CheckUser evidence. '''<font color="navy">[[User:NuclearWarfare|NW]]</font>''' ''(<font color="green">[[User talk:NuclearWarfare|Talk]]</font>)'' 22:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*{{inprogress}} <span style="font-family: Palatino;"> [[User:Mike V|<b style="color:#151B54">Mike V</b>]] • [[User_talk:Mike V|<b style="color:#C16C16">Talk</b>]]</span> 22:29, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*I'm guessing the checkuser is going to come back "unrelated".  I'm not really comfortable with a sock block here, it looks more like friends communicating via email (which I do all the time, and I would wager many of you do too: "Hey, check out the essay I wrote").  And I'll be a wikilawyer and argue the alternative... *if* they were the same person, where is the ''misuse'' of accounts? I'd at least strongly suggest unblocking Webdrone, and suggest reducing Alakzi's block to something more in line with being pissed off and out of control, rather than trolling and socking. That stupid RM is a train wreck with lots of people acting suboptimally; Alakzi is probably acting the ''most'' suboptimally, but still... --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 22:50, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-::Yeah, look at the page history of [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Joe_Eula&action=history]; that's not really feasible for one person to do (and there'd be no real benefit). Pretty sure this is just friends co-editing a page and later talking about WP by email/IRC/chat/something. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 22:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
-*There are certain elements of the technical data that leads to an {{inconclusive}} result. (CUs, I can elaborate privately if you have any questions.) <span style="font-family: Palatino;"> [[User:Mike V|<b style="color:#151B54">Mike V</b>]] • [[User_talk:Mike V|<b style="color:#C16C16">Talk</b>]]</span> 02:42, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
-*{{admin note}} Floquenbeam had already unblocked both users per their reasoning above.  Marking for close, as this is apparently just two users familiar with each other.  No evidence of meat puppetry.—[[User:Bagumba|Bagumba]] ([[User talk:Bagumba|talk]]) 03:16, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
-*Clarification to anyone not familiar with SPI terminology: The ''CU result'' came back "inconclusive", as there is ''technically'' evidently no way to prove or disprove a linkage with CU data alone.  However, the ''SPI itself'' is being closed as "no sockpuppetry, nor meatpuppetry", as it is clear behaviorally that neither occurred. --[[User:Floquenbeam|Floquenbeam]] ([[User talk:Floquenbeam|talk]]) 11:23, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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