Talk:Harmon Rabb

I'm in favor of merging the Harmon Rabb, Sr. article with this article. There's just not enough about him for a meaningful article, and it would make a good section in the Rabb Jr. article because of how often that character's plots revolved around his ongoing search for his father.--Raguleader 07:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree - I don't think it merits a separate article. MarkThomas 09:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I also agree. Darry2385 03:23, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Disagree While I disagree with merging the two pages, I am in favor of merging Harmon Rabb, Sr. to the Characters of JAG page. Neovu79 (talk) 06:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

USS Hornet - USS Ticonderoga

I'm not sure if anyone else reads this talk page other than me, but was Harm's dad ever shown flying off the USS Hornet? I remember one episode had a flashback to Harm and his dad on the Hornet, but Harm specifically said that the F-4 Phantom (the plane Harm Sr. flew) was too large to operate from the Hornet.--Raguleader 09:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Raguleader, I read this! And a huge fan of JAG too btw. Well picked up - I think you are right about Rabb Sr flying off from the Hornet. I don't recall the scene were Harm says it was too large to operate from the Hornet, which episode is that in out of interest? Until the whole thing comes out on DVD (one day!) it's hard to check these things. MarkThomas 09:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's in the Third Season episode "Ghost Ship", but I can't find a detailed summary of the episode online, and I don't have a copy of it handy. --Raguleader 10:23, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I just watched the episode, and Harm did say that his father flew off the ship, and I think your ref above to the F-4 being too large is incorrect. If I remember correctly, Mac asked Harm if he flew off the Hornet, and Harm replied that Tomcats are too large. Darry2385 03:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It was Ghost Ship, they were on the USS Hornet and Mac asked him if Harm had ever flown from the Hornet and Harm said that F-14's were too small to fly from it, but F-4's were also too small to fly from the Hornet as well--NavyAO2(AW) 03:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean too big. Spartan198 (talk) 14:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Awards and Decorations

Just dropping a note to explain my recent edits. I removed a note that the King of Romania who awarded Harm's medal was fictional, since the entire show is fictionalized. I also removed the note that said that the list of awards were current as of Season 10. With the show ending with Season 10, the note struck me as un-necessary.--Raguleader 03:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, was considering it myself but I wasn't sure if it would be appropriate. Darry2385 03:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Random Question: What is the blue ribbon at the end of Harm's ribbon rack for? It's not listed on the page of decorations, and I need to figure it out for the new ribbon rack I'm building for the article (complete with service and award stars). I've included an image of the ribbon rack with the award and service stars, but without the unidentified ribbon.--Raguleader 06:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Harm's Ribbons

While the show is based on many real-time events, it is still fictional. While the Navy or the U.S. Armed Services does not usually allow foriegn awards to be displayed with their other awards, Harm most likely received authorization to wear it with his other awards. Also I do not believe it's nesessary to have how and when he received the awards with this list. It should be placed in his Trivia. Neovu79 03:48, 03 Feburary 2007 (EST)

I took the liberty of updating the ribbons myself. Neovu79 04:33, 03 Feburary 2007 (EST)

Thanks a bunch, your ribbons look better than the ones I was able to make. What did you use for them?--Raguleader 11:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Adobe Photoshop. Neovu79 06:56, 03 Feburary 2007 (EST)

Hey wonder if you guys notice this, but if you watch the 2 part Boomerang episodes, you will notice that Harm has unfortunately turn upside down his ribbons when he wears them (So the Romanian ribbon, suppose to be on bottom right, now moves to top left and vice versa for the Distinguished Flying Cross). And also, the producers apparently could not decide whether Mic is a Lieutenant Commander or a Commander as he obviously switches between 2 shoulder boards. Centralman (talk) 13:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I changed "Military Virtue Medal" to "Order of the Crown (Romania)". I didnt find "Military Virtue Medal" ribbon shown on wikipedia nowhere except wikipedia. But "Order of the Crown" really looks like shown ribbon (see picture) and was awarded by Romanian king. (Romanian kind ruled until 1947, so the story of "JAG - Washington Holiday" episode in year 1996/1997 is fictional anyway)

Captain instead of Captain (Select)

While I agree that Harm was "selected" for promotion, however 10 USC 777 of the U.S. Code of Law states that frocking allows the authorized officer to wear the insignia of the selected grade as well as allow that officer by law the right to be refered by others as that selected grade, in this case, Captain Harmon Rabb instead of Commander or Captain (Select). Neovu79 (talk) 06:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. Harm was refered to as "Captain" by others we have seen that evidently from his colleagues after he has been selected for promotion. But in black and white and on paper the person is still being refered to Captain (select) instead of Captain. Centralman (talk) 15:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Not in the U.S. military. (Select) refers to an officer who has been selected for promotion but not authorized for frocking under 10 USC 777. While I agree there is some "variations" in terms of paperwork because the frocked officer is not entitled for pay in grade, but that's because the officer has not officially assumed the pay grade. I should know, I was a member of the Navy JROTC. Neovu79 (talk) 23:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Being a member of the JROTC doesn't mean that you are correct in terms of everything going on in the US Navy. (Select) means exactly that: A person being selected for promotion. Go to the navy's website and browse through the admirals' biographies. Some of those are occupying a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) billet but they are still on paper being a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) (Select). I can count that there are at least 7 Rear Admiral Selectees. My point: You don't call a frocked Captain as Captain (Select), that's true, but officially and on paper, he is just that.Centralman (talk) 01:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

What you're preceiving is a little wrong. The Rear Admiral (lower half) (Select)s as you point out, do not occupy Rear Admiral (lower half) positions, they are still occuping their current O-6 billets. The United States Navy puts bios of officers selected to flag rank to recognize that they have ben selected by the in service selection boards, or in the case of O-9 and O-10 grade selections, nominations by the PROTUS (President of the United States) through the SECDEF (Secretay of Defense). The navy website will remove the (Select) once the officer is assigned a billet via the CNO (Chief of Naval Operations) that requires the officer to hold the rank thus also assuming the rank. In the case of a frocked officer, the officer has already been given permission to assume the rank, but not the grade (pay grade). Do you get what I'm saying? Because of my background, I also use to work at BUPERS (Bureau of Naval Personnel) in Washington, DC. One of my contract clients was Admiral Patrick Walsh, the current Vice Chief of Naval Operations. Back then he was a Rear Admiral (Select) however, he still wore his Captain rank until he was confirmed by the Senate and assumed a billet that requires him to hold the rank. Vice Admiral Norbert Ryan, his CO at the time, did not authorize frocking like Harm was, so he could not assume the rank yet, hence Rear Admiral (Select). I know what I'm talking about. I've been working for the navy for 10 years. Neovu79 (talk) 06:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I have read your response. I guess my question still stands: If a commander is being frocked to a captain,like Harm, would he be a CAPTAIN on ALL official papers or a CAPTAIN (SELECT)? Centralman (talk) 07:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

No, his papers should read Captain, not Captain (Select). If there are variations in the paperwork, it is up to the officer himself or herself or their aids to contact BUPERS to rectify that. Many choose not to for the meer fact that the are going to be promoted. Neovu79 (talk) 07:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

On an interesting note, at the end of the series, Harm was left in a very unique situation. If he were to have loss the coin toss and actually retire before assuming the O-6 pay grade or retire before holding the O-6 pay grade less than six months, he would retire at the next lower rank and pay grade in which he had held for more than six months. In this case, he would have retired as a Commander with the retirement benefits of an O-5. This actual situation is one of the reasons why frocking in the military is uncommon because in today's military, personnel turnover is quite common. Enlisted and commission officers tend to resign or retire once their obligation is up. There are several instances that an officer is selected for promotion but has decided to retire or resign. In their mind, what is the point of allowing the officer to assume the rank beforehand if he or she will not be back to use it? Neovu79 (talk) 00:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Another point: ADM Mullen has worked in the navy for 40 years, do you think he knows the NJROTC inside out? I don't believe any one individual inside such a big organization can know everything. Centralman (talk) 07:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying that. No, just because I work for the navy doesn't mean I know everything nor am I saying that our country's CJCS know everything, however I do know a lot because of my time at the navy's personnel and percurement divisions; with the little help of some studing of the United States Code and a keen interest in the navy. Neovu79 (talk) 07:37, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Harmon Rabb photo.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

How Many people did Rabb kill in the line of Duty?

In one episode, in which Rabb is being held captive by Palmer, Palmer states that he killed 19 people, he likely killed 22+ people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 214.3.17.38 (talk) 12:50, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

JAG & Top Gun

Was the Harmon Rabb character based on Tom Cruise's character in Top Gun? I'm curious because they share similar backstory elements. Both their fathers flew Navy F4s and disappeared during the Vietnam War (though Harmon, Sr.'s story was further fleshed out during JAG's production run). Spartan198 (talk) 14:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Mistake in Harm's ribbons

I think the Romanian decoration should come before the Kuwait liberation thing, since the Kuwaiti award is a SERVICE medal and according to USN regulations foreign personal awards, orders or medals (such as the Romanian one) come before foreign SERVICE medals (just as US personal awards, orders or medals always come before US SERVICE medals) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omulurimaru (talk • contribs) 18:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

On the show though it was shown coming after Kuwait, and in this case shouldn't it match the shows order since it is a medal rack for a fictional character? Maybe with a side note or foot note? Dr. Stantz (talk) 18:07, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Discontinuity in Rabb's rank

The article notes that Rabb was promoted to Lieutenant Commander in episode 1.13. However, in episode 1.10 he is wearing the gold oak leaf insignia of a Lt. Commander, and is referred to by other characters as "Commander Rabb". (See screenshot on the right.) What's weird is that in episodes 1.09 and 1.11 he is back to being "Lieutenant Rabb" and is back to wearing the two-bar insignia of a lieutenant.

File:Rabb-Ep110.png

Rabb in a screenshot from Episode 1.10

What's going on with this? It should be noted somewhere, I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quadari (talk • contribs) 00:58, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

That was because CBS showed the episodes out-of-order. If you watch the beginning of episode 1.13 - "Defensive Action" - you will see the promotion ceremony of Rabb being made Lt. Commander. It's very informal. They light cigars, and his commanding officer hands him the promotion. Later on in that same episode 1.13, Harm and his partner defend the CAG in a court martial. As part of the defense, Rabb ends up parachuting into Bosnia. These events are later referenced at the beginning of episode 1.10 - "Boot" - clearly indicating that episode 1.10 was shown out-of-order when it was broadcast. The episode 1.10 ("Boot") should have been shown immediately after episode 1.13 ("Defensive Action"). Episode 1.13 is the correct episode to identify as the episode where Rabb was promoted to Lt. Commander. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.101.129.226 (talk) 07:33, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Correction of Captain Promotion

I figured I should leave this here just in case. I am just finishing a full rewatch of the entire JAG series and have corrected when Harm was promoted. While yes it is true that it is mentioned in the beginning of the series finale, Fair Winds and Flowing Seas, he as actually in fact promoted in the previous episode at the very end of the episode. It is just rehashed in the opening of the series finale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.149.52.125 (talk) 22:45, 15 May 2014 (UTC)