Talk:Huo Yuanjia

Death by poisoning?

I have just removed the addition of info that Huo's death was due to "poisoning by the Japanese over a period of time". If anyone can find sources to back this up, feel free to add the information back in. —
Kimchi.sg | Talk 04:47, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Yar there seems to be extensive vandalism in this page and silly POVishness
68.126.205.129 01:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Huo Yuanjia was posioned by the Japanese via invited tea drinking. The Russian, French and British were surely sore losers but it was the Japanese who could not admit defeat. One could say it was fear or politically induced, largely due to his agreed involvement in China's military training. This posed as a threat to the rising Japanese powers which eventually invaded and caused mass destruction and terror in China. Thus here is another good question, 1910: Could China have still had a chance to hinder the oppressions to come had Huo Yuanjia not been poisoned?

The poisoning by the Japanese is an unsubstantiated rumor spread by those who have ulterior motives other than reporting unbias facts. A few Chinese and some of his decendents still desparately cling to this idea, simply because they desparately wish to believe it. In reality, the evidence indicates the poisoning theory is merely a fabrication. Nobody know for sure not even his decendents. If there were actual witnesses to the crime, then his death would not be a mystery.
Jaotsu 18:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

The reason why the poisoning by some Japanese is an unsubstantiated rumor is that there is no positive proof or evidence to validate this rumor. How do people know he was 'secretly' poisoned? So far from my research, the poison rumor is NOT verifiable. What is verifiable is the use of arsenic to treat tuberculosis during the early 1900's was common in China and Europe.
Huo Xin 00:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Another rumor that has been propagated without facts, was that Huo fought the Judo team and broke all of their hands including the master's. He then attended a peace-making dinner given by the Japanese Judo wrestlers, where he was given a medication by a Japanese doctor containing poison. This ridiculous rumor has been disproven. How can the Judo team eat using chopsticks when all their hands are broken? Who reported that he was given medication by the Japanese doctor?
Huo Xin 05:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Mizongquan

is the family style of mizongquan the same thing as mizongluohan that this article links to? There are quite a few chinese styles that share the same name, or similar names that are quite different from each other and unrelated. I can't be too sure of this. (also the spelling as my jhong is terrible!)

Was this an actual event?

"The 2006 Jet Li film Fearless (Huo Yuan Jia), described an event that took place on September 14, 1910. According to the film, this day is one of the most significant date in Huo's life. Ever since ... " This refers to the movie Fearless, but did this even actually take place? or was it purely fictional? If it were fictional then a clearer wording should be used because right now it sounds like the event actualy took place, and was refered by the movie Fearless. I am currently trying to find some more info on this event. . .
clragon 02:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That was a fictional event from the film I think. There are a lot of colorful stories surrounding him in the public. For example someone told me that they read in a Chinese newspaper that Huo Yuanjia supposedly grabbed the Russian wrestler's wrist and threw him, but from what I've read, Huo only spoke with the Russian. If he really had a physical exchange, why didn't his great-grandson mention it in the interview?
Shawnc 04:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem with interviewing his descendants is that some of them are trying to hype myths and legends regarding Huo Yuanjia. You will find that such interviews are unreliable sources of information since they overexaggerate the events in his life to benefit their own ulterior motives. Also at that time the press was well known to distort news in order to sell papers, so even newspaper articles must be examined with a degree of skepticism.
Jaotsu 17:29, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The 2006 Jet Li film "Fearless" is a fictionalized story about Huo Yuanjia's life. Like all movies about famous people, they are never 100% accurate. Movies are made for entertainment not for history lessons. Just like the Bruce Lee movie "Fists of Fury" (Chinese Connection) used distorted history about the life of Liu Zheng Sheng to make the movie more entertaining to the audience.
Huo Xin 03:24, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Verifiable story in martial arts?

He "had caught one chance to end the fight, he stopped his one opportunity to deliver a death blow to his opponent realizing that he has caused enough deaths, the match ends anonymously, but Tanaka has realized who the true master of fighting was". This is a writing more fitting for a movie script than an encyclopedia.
Vapour

I've marked this article as needing a cleanup. We need to clear out or verify all this nonsense that the Jet Li film is generating.

I agree. I will be making cleanup changes to clear out all nonsense and verify all the facts.
Huo Xin 21:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Are all the information true?

i would like to know if all the facts and information are true and unbiased as it is important for people to know the truth. some people might even use this website for their research on huo yuan jia and in the end they use wrong and inaccurate information. so i like to double-check if all this information are accurate. - thank you

I have been researching as much as possible in both Asian libraries and on the internet. There are many rumors about his life that some people want to put down as fact which are totally untrue. I have been busy making corrections and removing any bias and correcting historic fallacies. According to what I have studied about his life and events, Huo Yuanjia would never be boastful and never demand anything. He would not brag about his skills - most of the myths and rumors you read about are perpetuated by the press and those who wish to make money regarding stories surrounding events in his life. He would never place blame on others or say or write anything bad about anyone regardless of whether it is true or if they deserved it. Huo Yuanjia believed that to gain superiority of one's self, this was the philosophy to follow and if everyone followed it, the country as a whole would prosper. This is a far cry from what you see in modern day China and what is being taught to the public as a whole. I believe if Huo Yuanjia was alive today, he would be very disappointed to see the state of martial arts and the failure of his teachings to students today.
Jaotsu 03:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Historical events and corrections have been made to more accurately describe Huo Yuanjia's life. There has been incorrect and unproven rumors previously posted. These will be removed as found.
Huo Xin 03:26, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Not gregorian

China wasn't using the Gregorian calendar in 1910 (and not really until 1929) and their year numbering system was IIRC a bit haywire, so "this before that" is probably more reliable than "dates" (which are translations).

Corrections made

People have been mixing myth, rumors, and unsubstantiated stories about Huo Yuan Jia. Corrections have been made to make his life history more accurate.
Jaotsu 23:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Grammatical Correction

It read "a few months helping found..."
Now reads "a few months after helping found..."
128.61.137.240 20:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)Carsonc

You cannot learn to fight by yourself and his great humility

You cannot learn martial arts fighting just by doing forms. If you wish to learn to fight others succesfully you need to practice daily with another person. Thus, Huo Yuanjia could not of practiced by himself secretly for 10 years and become a champion fighter. The exclusion of his Japanese tutor is historically inaccurate although his name may not be correct. Regarding the Russian fighter and the newspaper article, Huo Yuan Jia would never "demand" any thing. He would ask rather than demand because of his great and well known trait of humility.
Jaotsu

Phrases such as "No Dogs and Chinese Allowed" were widely used by the Europeans forcibly occupying territories in China

This is a myth, refuted many times over by Chinese academics. It's interesting to note that this "no dogs and ___" claim is made in regards to many ethnicities who have suffered second-class status during periods of history, for example the Ainu in Japan.
--68.227.68.36 14:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

What you are saying is incorrect. You are misrepresenting the Chinese academics. Let me clarify this issue regarding this catch-phrase. It is a myth that the Japanese posted signs which said "No Dogs and Chinese Allowed" in Shanghai, but in reality, the phrase "No dogs and Chinese allowed" was widely used by the Europeans forcibly occupying territories in China just like "Sick men of Asia". "Chinaman" and "Chink" were also commonly used terms to describe a person of Chinese ancestry. Such phrases and terms were very popular during the early 20th century to describe the exploited Chinese people.

Fact: The phrase "No Dogs and Chinese Allowed" has it origins in what is now called Huangpu Park. It is located on the northern end of the Bund in Shanghai and stretches along Suzhou Creek. It was first established in 1886 as Public Garden, the first European sytle park in China designed by a Scottish gardener. It included a resting pavilion and a tennis court, and was specifically designed for use by European foreigners living in Shanghai. Signs such as "The Gardens are reserved for the foreign community", and further down: "No dogs and bicycles are admitted" were posted on the entry gates to this park. These two rules have probably contributed to the birth of the simplistic (though in essence correct) catch-phrase.

The rumor is perpetuated by the 1972 Bruce Lee film "Fists of Fury" also known as "The Chinese Connection". The film is famous for the scene in which Chen Zhen is denied entry into a park bearing a sign stating "No Dogs and Chinese Allowed" which fictionally was posted by the Japanese. He kicked the offending sign in the air and broke it with a flying kick. In reality, no such sign was ever posted by the Japanese. It never existed.

Fact: In Beijing's Forbidden Palace, there are two shops with the signs "Foreign Guests Only, Chinese Nationals Forbidden."
Jaotsu 18:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Additional historic content added

I have included additional historic content. The story of Huo Yuanjia and the history of the Chin Woo Association was over simplified and excluded the political environment. The influence of the Tongmenghui, a secret society and underground resistance movement organized by Sun Yat-sen and Song Jiaoren in Tokyo, Japan, on 20 August 1905, and the financial support in the creation of the first Chin Woo center should not be excluded.
Huo Xin 06:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)