User talk:Premeditated Chaos/Archive 18

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Multiple issues

Well, it's been a couple of days of unpremeditated chaos. But thank you for nudging me to visit Syabi, where I saw all of Atsushi Fujiwara's photobooks and was particularly impressed by Nangokushō.

I'm told (admittedly not by you) of "multiple issues", specifically that (and I quote):

• This article needs more links to other articles to help integrate it into the encyclopedia. (November 2015)
• This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. (September 2015)

The former: no. (Other articles should link to it, but that's a different story.) It's bristling with links (some via WikiData). The latter: yes, in the list of exhibitions. (Sourcing every exhibition in a list that some previous editor has lazily copy/pasted from one created by the artist always involves major drudgery. I've started this, but ... yawn.)

The facts that the "article" on Fujiwara in en:WP was garbage (and that in ja:WP still is), and that neither Yang Seungwoo nor Takehiko Nakafuji appears to have any article in any Wikipedia, combine to depress me. Particularly in view of the assiduous (and uncritical) attention paid by WP editors to Japanese pablum for the young and the young at brain. Time for me to turn off the computer and to "get a life" (for a couple of hours). -- Hoary (talk) 01:45, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Hey! I'm glad something good came of me mulling through the orphaned Japanese photographer list (both your visit and the improvement to the article). I've pulled the maintenance tags because I think they've been pretty much dealt with, and I nominated it at DYK because I think your hard work deserves the recognition. You can find the nom at Template:Did you know nominations/Atsushi Fujiwara if you feel like commenting :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:10, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Ooh, thank you for your two suggestions there. Errm, I'm not keen to turn the spotlight on Butterfly, for three reasons. First, I have a hunch that I don't get the book; I mean, I kind of understand what Fujiwara's doing and I do understand what people say about the book, but somehow it doesn't click with me and I'm pretty sure that it's me whose at fault. Secondly, it's a seemingly private book. Yes, it's published, but only in an edition of a few hundred. I'd guess that the protagonist might not be so happy to think of hundreds of Wikipedia-surfers investigating her. Thirdly, I don't relish the prospect of mouth-breathers in search of salacious content writing stupid comments on my article.

As for Poet Island, good idea. Almost certainly Fujiwara's childhood visit was part of the reason why he returned, but the major reason would have been his realization that Akashi had been cooped up in this isolation hospital, writing celebratory poems while effectively imprisoned and with impending/actual blindness and tracheotomy. (Recommended read.) So how about the following?

... that for his photobook Poet Island, Atsushi Fujiwara returned to the leper colony Nagashima Aiseien to depict the world of the poet Kaijin Akashi, who had lived, gone blind, and died there?

I'm not sure of the rules: in terms of editable characters (e.g. the 26 in "'''[[Atsushi Fujiwara]]'''"), it's over 200; in terms of visible characters (e.g. the 16 in "Atsushi Fujiwara"), it's under. (Or so I think. It's been a long day, and I've just downed a richly deserved beer.) And the big problem is that there's no en:WP (or ja:WP) article on Akashi and no prospect of one. (I couldn't amass the needed sources, and I'm utterly unqualified to write about Japanese poetry.) -- Hoary (talk) 11:22, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I like your hook, it's quite elegant. I've replaced the Butterfly hook with your version. I think the rule is for visible characters so it should be fine, but in any case, they're usually a bit lenient with the hook squeaking over the character count. I confess I'm quite curious about Butterfly now. The preview photos from Poet Island look really lovely; I quite like abandoned places so it seems like it would be up my alley. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm having trouble with this. First, it's Akashi's physical world, and I'd like to point out that this wasn't where he spent his last years after a career in poetry but instead where he wrote the poetry. However:

... that for his photobook Poet Island, Atsushi Fujiwara returned to the leper colony Nagashima Aiseien to depict the physical world of Kaijin Akashi, who had written poetry as his health declined and he went blind there?

is too wordy even as it is, and without saying "the poet Kaijin Akashi" it risks giving the impression that he was merely a casual or occasional poet. Secondly, it makes Akashi more interesting than Fujiwara, and we have nothing on offer for Akashi. But I've just realized that yes WP does offer a couple of uninteresting stubs (in French and German). (Each is titled "Akashi Kaijin", as is right; but as is wrong in terms of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles.)

How about:

... that for his photobook Poet Island, Atsushi Fujiwara returned to the leper colony Nagashima Aiseien to depict the world of the poet Kaijin Akashi, who had lived, gone blind, and died there?

Just think how this nudge to read something in French or German will offend the monoglots who slept through their second-language classes in grade school, heh heh. -- Hoary (talk) 23:15, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Pee-esses: (1) Unfortunately Butterfly had a dream is out of stock at Shashasha; maybe they'll get more in, because copies were in stock at Sōkyūsha's bookshop as recently as yesterday. Shashasha does offer Poet Island and the other pair. (2) "Earwig percentage"? -- Hoary (talk) 23:41, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I wrote you a present: Kaijin Akashi. I'm also unqualified, but I basically only write articles on topics I don't know a thing about, so I decided to take the leap. If I can get it to 1500 characters, we can make it a twofer DYK, which is kind of neat. There's probably enough available if I dredge JSTOR and anything else I have access to, but I'm almost off work so I'll have to get back to it tomorrow. I can probably figure something out for the hook once I've had sufficient coffee and time to think on it. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:47, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Oh - Earwig's Tool is the standard copyvio checker. It spits out a percentage of copied text compared to a source. Often it's a false positive if there are lots of proper nouns on a page. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:48, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah . . . thank you. Akashi's an interesting person, and there's a dismaying amount available about him. Books full of it, indeed. I've done a very little work on the budding article, but really, I'm pressed for time, and I know squat about tanka, waka, or for that matter about non-constrained Japanese poetry. (Ahem, or, come to think of it, about non-Japanese poetry. The closest I've come in WP is Morris Bishop.) -- Hoary (talk) 06:25, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay in responding. I managed to get Kaijin Akashi up to 1500 characters, so hopefully I can sneak it into the DYK and make it a two-for-one combo. Speaking of, I added another hook - see if you like it? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:51, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Responded to DYK suggestions

Hi Premeditated Chaos thank you for reviewing this DYK nomination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Helen_Appo_Cook. I appreciate your time. I've expanded the lead, moved the SB Anthony reference to the activism section and created a Alt 2 teaser with your suggested copy. I can't help but think how formidable Mrs. Cook must have been! Hope these edits capture your request, though I'm not sure if I should answer on your talk page or the nomination talk page. Nicolet1327 (talk)

Akashi's start

Thank you for your good work on/for the two articles. But we have a problem:

1. Noda/Akashi "started to write poetry in traditional Japanese forms while working as a primary school teacher": which I sourced to Ikeda's page about him. Of course, it's imaginable that Ikeda is wrong, or that I misunderstood something.

2. "While at Nagashima Aiseien, [Akashi] began to write poetry, primarily in the traditional haiku and waka formats": which you sourced to one or both of two articles by Kathryn Tanaka. Of these two, "Writing ties in Japan" barely mentions Akashi (though it does say something about "leprosy literature", so I don't dispute its usefulness or quoteworthiness). I lack access to "Contested histories and happiness" (unless perhaps I pay); does this really say that he started after he was institutionalized?

I'll leave this matter with you, as I have to leave the interwebs right now for a couple of days. (Incidentally, I'm in too much of a rush to check if it was haiku; I'd thought it was tanka.) But I do think that something has to be done here, as the article contradicts itself. -- Hoary (talk) 01:42, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

The original wording there was a leftover from the French Wikipedia article. Keeping in mind that I'm using Google translate, I'm not sure I see where Ikeda says his writing started while he was a schoolteacher. This timeline by Dr. Hisayo Okano also doesn't mention poetry during his teaching career, but says that he started "composition and haiku" in 1933 after his caregivers relieved his "mental confusion". That could be an translation thing though - it's possible that in context it means that he started writing again after stopping due to mental confusion. I'll do more digging. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 02:59, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Wait, this quote from Akashi says he didn't start writing tanka until he was in his 30s. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:25, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Ají catalán.

Sorry for the lag. Now I plunged to reply you and I lost the link to my reference. For what I remember (and can imagine due to the poorness of the coverage); it surely doesn't detail if it's sweet or hot. Indeed they're both, sweet and hot, as they're two varieties, one sweet and other hot. They may not be the true fire, but surely one of those is enough to enchilar the toughest Mexican. I wouldn't use more than a quarter catalán in dish, indeed a quarter is way too much. I'm sorry there's not much information about them (though on a recent episode of master chef Uruguay they used them).