User talk:80.192.242.187

November 2006

Your recent contribution(s) to Wikipedia are very much appreciated. However, you did not provide references or sources for your information. Keeping Wikipedia accurate and verifiable is very important, and as you might be aware there is currently a drive to improve the quality of Wikipedia by encouraging editors to cite the sources they used when adding content. If sources are left unreferenced, it may count as original research, which is not allowed. Can you provide in the article specific references to any books, articles, websites or other reliable sources that will allow people to verify the content in the article? You can use a citation method listed at inline citations that best suits each article. Thanks! Dylan Lake (t·c·e) 09:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for experimenting with the page St Helens, Merseyside on Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you may want to do. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. SkerHawx 21:45, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Helpful(I hope) suggestion

The primary problem with your edits simply seems to be you didn't write them in correctly. If you're telling the truth, instead of writing comments in the article about how false it is, correct the false data.--Vercalos 22:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I second that

Regarding your complaint about my reversion of the edits to St Helens, Merseyside, if something is incorrect, simply correct the information. Your edits said things like "this information is wrong. The Sankey Brook doesn't start on Billinge Hill at all. It starts in Rainford and comes through Windle and Haresfinch, meeting the Sankey Canal near to the sewage treatment works between Parr and Haydock."

Just correct the information as needed, and be bold. If you editorialize or point out errors in the actual article, it will be deleted. If you correct the errors, particularly if you cite the corrections, recent change patrollers won't revert your edits. Be Bold!! This is an encyclopedia, not a message board. If you'd like to understand Wikipedia's policies better, please visit the welcome page. Also, please remember to sign your comments (not edits) with four tildes. Happy editing. SkerHawx 22:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Wigan

I'm currently looking at your edits and checking them myself, however they don't tally from what i know. if you would care to cite your references please, this would make your edits reasonable. However, until you can, i shall revert them to the user:Man2 edits in the meanwhile. Once you have got your sources, please consult the Wikipedia help to find out how to revert my changes to the document. Thanks and keep editing! Random articles 21:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense

Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia, as you did to Wigan. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. Random articles 21:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

This has to stop now. If you have a problem, discuss it on the talk pages. in the meanwhile, i'm issuing you a warning.

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, as you did to Wigan, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Random articles 21:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Final Warning

This is your last warning.
The next time you vandalize a page, as you did to Wigan, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Random articles 21:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright...

Fine. after checking several documents, you can your edits as long as you CITE YOUR REFERENCES, then edit to your hearts content. HOWEVER, this page is now being checked and having its information sorted and corrected by admins once the article has been put on the list. if you still have a problem with the corrected document, take the issue up on the talk page, NOT on the actual article. I shall revert your edits one last time, so that anyone else needing the document will have an article that can be relied upon to have possibly correct information. Thankyou Random articles 21:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Blank Pages

Hello, I'm 82.33.171.111. I noticed that you recently removed all content from a page. Please do not do this. Blank pages are harmful to Wikipedia because they have a tendency to confuse readers. As a rule, if you discover a duplicate article, please redirect it to an appropriate existing page. If a page has been vandalised, please revert it to the last legitimate version. If you feel that the content of a page is inappropriate, please edit the page and replace it with appropriate content. If you believe there is no hope for the page, please see the deletion policy for how to proceed. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you wish to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.––Alex LaPointe 18:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If you could please leave a brief editing summary in the edit summary boxes it would really be helpful. Edit summaries help other wikipedians to know what your doing and it helps us to distinguish vandalism from constructive edits. Thanks, –Alex LaPointe 20:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Please avoid adding original research to articles. This includes using sources to draw independent conclusions on your own. Thanks. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Wafulz 02:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia, as you did to Wigan. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. —Lantoka ^{( talk | contrib)} 10:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

My apologies. If you dispute that Wigan is 18 miles from that place then remove the entire sentence. Adding "not" like that looks like random and disrputive vandalism, which we do see a lot of here on Wikipedia. —Lantoka ^{( talk | contrib)} 11:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Metropolitan Borough of Wigan

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia as you did with Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. The text you added was misquotation. MRSC • Talk 11:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Lancashire

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia as you did with this edit. To be clear, adding false/misquoted text is nonsense. MRSC • Talk

See here: Association_of_British_Counties#Commentary. MRSC • Talk 12:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

My reversion of Wigan

I have to make it clear that what I reverted was obvious vandalism ("Woof! Woof!") [1] I did not at all revert anything else that you added to the article and thus would not ask to be recognized for having a greater knowledge of Wigan than you. -- Ouishoebean / ^(talk) 14:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I must also point out that "Woof! Woof!" was in reply to an equally ridiculous statement, made by another, saying 'a dog would be a Wiganer if he was born in Billinge Hospital'. I notice that has not been removed. Also, the statement was made in 'discussion' and not on the Article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.242.187 (talk • contribs) November 24, 2006 @ 15:35 (UTC)

I apologize that I did not see that comment, but you should have removed that comment, stating the reason as vandalism instead of adding more vandalism to it. Vandalisms in discussions are not permitted. Also, please sign you replies with 4 tildes (~) in future. Thanks. -- Ouishoebean / ^(talk) 09:51, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

• Hiya, sorry if the post to my discussion board (Man2) was not from you. I also live in Wigan and dont understand where u find the 'massive open space' between town and Orrell. Pem and Orrell are practically the same place (the whole area from Orrell through Pem to the town centre is urban, you dont drive down country lanes to get to Orrell (you do see a bit of green driving from Orrell to the bottom of Billinge.) The point about Skem is that it is included in something called the 'Wigan Urban Area', not that its in Wigan.

• Hiya, yes your spot on there is some green near the motorway bridge. I also agree that it is wrong to take away the identity of smaller English places, however I honestly think that to treat areas like Pem/Orrell/Ince/Platt Bridge etc as totally separate to town is pushing it a bit. I've never heard one person say I live in 'Pemberton' (etc) to anyone from outside the Wigan area. Im not sure where you live but unless you a) live in Skem or b) are not originally from the area im sure you refer to yourself as a 'Wiganer'/'from Wigan'. Whilst im not advocating everywhere being refered to as 'Wigan', to describe Orrell/Pem or Ince as villages/small towns these days, given the urban development around them and their role (rightly or wrongly) as suburbs of the town centre, is ridiculas. On a lighter note, im glad to finally see another local sorting the mess that the 90% of editors (who have never even been to Wigan, let alone lived here) have made of the articles.

• Hiya sorry to keep banging on about the point regarding Orrell as no longer being a village, but I think you should take a look at Wikipedia's articles on 'villages' and 'suburbs'. To go through a quick list, do any of the following circumstances exist in Orrell today, a)in a rural area - N0, b) Tiny population - NO, c)clear green belt around it/distinct boundary - NO (Orrell only ends just before the KFC in Pem, it is in a built up area), d)NOT under the administrative control of an adjacent town or city - NO (it comes under Wigan) e)local economy based on agricultural production - NO, f) majority of population work in the village - NO, f) have little to do with nearby urban aras (i.e. economy/social)- NO. Now consider if the factors for a suburb exsist, a)residential area on the outskirts of a town - YES, b) densisty of habitation is lower than inner city/town - YES, c)transporting systems allowing for commuting -YES d)consequence of 'urban sprawl - YES, d)majority of the poulation commute to nearby town- YES e) under the administrative control of adjacent town -YES. Im not completely dismissing your points I just believe that there is no way the place can now be called a village, to give the impression that Orrell is like the villages around Wrightington would be wrong. It is a urban area directly connected to places like Kitt Green, which could never be described as a village. The Orrell/Billinge/Winstanley Township forum on the 26/04/05 (found with a google search) even discussed if Orrell was a suburb or a village. I believe that the article for Orrell (and Pem/Ince) should show that these places are residential suburbs under the dominant influence of Wigan, not separate entities. Thanks. Man2.

• • • Wigan Metropolitan Borough is under the dominant influence of Greater Manchester. Does this mean that Wigan is 'in' Manchester? Belfast is under the dominant influence of England. Does this mean that Belfast is 'in' England?

• the articles you quote are not official. Neither is 'Wikipedia'. They are the ramblings of people who have an 'idea', and stick by it. Don't believe what you read in these articles, it isn't always fact. Orrell is not 'under' Wigan, as you, and lots of others think. It is 'in', 'part of', the 'Wigan Metropolitan Borough', which is made up of a group of individual areas, each one being represented by it's own 'ward' council. It just has the same name as the town of Wigan, but don't be misled. You also say that there is no green-belt surrounding Orrell. Look again. Orrell Village is completely surrounded by greenbelt and agricultural land. Billinge is completely surrounded by the same. Winstanley is not, that's why I have not brought Winstanley into the discussion. These places are seperate, and the Wigan Metropolitan Borough Council regard them as such. So do other 'official' bodies. Suburbs of Wigan are places like Beech Hill, Swinley, Scholes, Whelley. Ignore forums etc. as they consist of people who don't know, the 'we are in', 'we come under' and 'we are part of' brigade. The fact of the matter is, Wigan is where the sign marks the boundary.

• • • Hi, no of course Wigan is not 'in' Manchester, nor Belfast 'in' England. Wigan (as Im quite sure you are aware) is 'in' Greater Manchester and Belfast is 'in' Northern Ireland. Why you point blankley refuse to accept that Orrell is no longer a village in the traditional sense im not sure. I wholeheartly support your opinion that the identity of smaller places need to be (where possible) preserved, however the circumstances that exist in Orrell today can find no argument for the description of Orrell as a village. My above descriptions came from my studies of geography and town planning at university and while I, like you, would like to see places such as Ince and Pemberton given recognition, the fact is that they are all suburbs of the the town. They all fill every criteria for the description of a suburb and non of a village/small town. The fact you live in the area makes this even more unbelievable, you must concede that non of the above areas are treated by anyone in Wigan as separte settlements. As I mentioned above to give the impression that Orrell is similar to the villages found in the Wrightington or Rainford areas is simply misleading, no one driving through the area who does not know it, will make any distinction between the centre of town and Orrell. There are no distinct country roads to travel down, there are no farms/agricultural centres to pass at all, there is simply nothing to suggest a settlement in a rural area (which is one of the official descriptions of a village).

• The last line of your statement clearly shows that you are blind. If the bridge was removed from Moor Road, over the M58, Orrell would be completely isolated from Wigan.

People who live in Orrell refer to the 'Village'. They have pride in their 'Village'. (by Orrell, I mean the village of Orrell, not Orrell Post, Gathurst or Lamberhead Green). They do not consider themselves to live in Wigan. I live in Wigan Metropolitan Borough, but I don't consider myself a Wiganer, just the same as a Wiganer would not consider themself a Mancunian and, likewise, someone from Garswood wouldn't pretend to be a St.Helenser, or a 'scouser'. (even though they are in Merseyside). Why do you mention Ince and Pemberton? They are clearly connected to Wigan by development, so are more difficult to distinguish. The government statistics class these places as 'standalone urban areas'. Wigan MBC themselves do not consider these places suburbs. I would consider places like Winstanley, Hawkley Hall, Goose Green, Worsley Mesnes, Beech Hill, Poolstock etc. to be 'suburbs' of Wigan. Orrell, Shevington, Standish, Aspull, Ashton in Makerfield, Golborne etc. are all outside Wigan boundaries. Wigans boundaries are clearly defined and signs are placed at these boundaries to tell you this. I can't understand the mentality of anyone to think otherwise, it's as clear as day. Any rumour that is started in Wigan goes like wildfire and every man and his dog believe it.

• And what about the fact that Orrell does include Orrell Post and the other places as 'Orrell', are you just going to pick and choose what you want 'Orrell' to be now?. Never in all the time I've lived here have I ever heard anyone say they do not live in Wigan. I dont know where in the borough you live but if your from the following I will accept your point about not being 'Wigan': Leigh, Ashton, Hindley and the places next to Salford, otherwise you are from Wigan. Your point about the government saying Ince and Pemberton are standalone urban areas is also wrong, these with Orrell and the town itself are called the 'Wigan Urban Area', Shevington and one or two other places are defined as standalone urban areas and the places to the east of the town are in the Greater Manchester Urban Area. Unless you are blind (which for some reason you called me) you may have noticed that as Orrell is connected to Pemberton 'through development' and Pemberton is connected to Wigan 'through development' so by your own assessment Orrell therefore must be connected to Wigan through the develpment between Wigan and Pemberton. Also by your way of thinking seeing that 90% of the town were born in Billinge Hospital how many people come 'from Wigan' , is that limited to the people born in houses in Swinley?

• Can't you read and understand? I said you are blind in answer to you saying that there is no agricultural land / farms between Wigan and Orrell, that is a crackpot statement. Go on Google Map, Satellite, follow the M6 motorway north from the Wigan/Goose Green exit, you will clearly see agricultural land on either side of the motorway until you reach the Orrell junction. If you follow the M58 motorway west of the junction, you will clearly see greenbelt/agricultural land on either side of the motorway, therefore, completely separating Orrell (def: Orrell Village / Centre / Original Orrell / the Middle of ) from the newer / outskirts of Orrell, which is separated from Pemberton by the M6 motorway (which was built on agricultural land). If you go with the theory that a road is 'connecting development' then everywhere is connected, by road, and indeed Wigan is continuously connected to Liverpool, by development. Standish is connected to Wigan, by development, but it has been pointed out, in the Wigan article (discussion) that Wigan MBC say that 'Standish is not a suburb of Wigan'.

I find it strange that you think that everyone living near to Wigan are minded to consider themselves a 'Wiganer', as I find this not the case unless they actually 'do' come from Wigan.

Anyway, I will have no more to say on the subject. I will leave saying that Orrell is, in my opinion and a great many others opinions, not in Wigan but is, and always has been 'near' Wigan.

• Thats fine I respect your opinion, (last time I checked my reading and comprehension were of sufficent standard to study a degree by the way), anyway moving on where you get the statement that a 'great many people' see Orrell as simply being 'near Wigan' I do not know. I have been an Orrell resident all my life and have continuously heard Orrell people refer to themselves as Wiganers (obviously people not originally from this area will not do this), and write and give, "Orrell, Wigan, WN5 ***", as thier address. Orrell as I keep pointing out to you starts nowhere near the motorway junction, it starts near the Fishergate Pub, now demonstrate where the clearly identifiable country road and agricultural centres are that I drive down from there. You cannot use 'Orrell centre' or 'old' Orrell as an argument because despite your protest Orrell covers a much larger area. I have now doubt that you do not consider yourself a Wiganer and that is fine, however to back up your opinion your cannot simply ignore reality, Orrell in 2006 is no longer a village, it bares no resemblance to a village whatsoever and is the polar opposite of the 'true' villages found in the Wrightington area,it is now a suburb of the town of Wigan. The majority of natives of the area do and always will refer to themselves as Wiganers. I hope this will be our last words on the subject as Im sure you will agree this is getting boring. Thanks

• I find it amazing, that in the last few weeks, in relation to where 'The Verve' formed you have been changing the address of Winstanley Collage from 'Wigan' to 'Winstanley near Wigan' or 'Billinge' or Lancashire, now you have decided Winstanley college is in 'Orrell'. You just can't stand the fact that the verve have Wigan connections and keep changing history and places to suit your own pathetic needs. Your prejudice towards Wigan and Wiganers is quite clear. You are an idiot and yet I find you a constant source of amusement as the way you can never control your temper or frustrations provides me with many a good laugh. Good day Sir!

• • What a clown! Read it again, lad. I said that Winstanley College is in 'Orrell Ward'. In fact, the government said it, I'm just passing on the information. Anyway, look on the map and you'll see that Winstanley College is joined, by 'ribbon development' to Orrell, so it is in Orrell. Official. Billinge hospital too, is connected by 'ribbon development' to Orrell. Hey, I'm not prejudiced against Wiganers at all. I've made myself a good living, over the years, out of Wiganers. And Orrellers, Billingers, Ashtoners, Bryners, Warringtoners an' all! I'm only prejudiced towards people not knowing where Wigan starts and finishes. That's all! I know, you see, because I own a lot of it!!!!

• • Talk a lot of it too!!!

If it helps, Homer Simpson lives at 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield, which if I'm correct, is only a few hundred yards walk away from the old Wigan Athletic football ground.

Anything to be of assistance.