Talk:False prophet

This article was nominated for deletion on 10 August 2005. The result of the discussion was Keep.

Really stupid

I don't know who wrote this but it's really stupid. "The false prophet, used in St. John's Book of Revelation, is a personification of Satan, or the devil, from whom sulphur and fire will pour from his mouth. One can assume that the false prophet, taken literally, was the root of evil in a person's heart, telling them corruption and Satanic worship was the right path in life."

You can't take this literally! It's impossible to have sulphur and fire coming out of your mouth literally! And even if it were possible, it isn't logical to assume that this "literal" prophet is a "root of evil". Is the "root" literal as well? It would kill the person. A "literal" root in your heart (unles it was very small) would cause a heart attack, and/or blood poisoning. This article should be deleted!--ChadThomson 07:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article should be deleted because you dispute one statement in it??? Idiotic. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-10 15:22

I don't think you looked at the older version of the article which was, in fact, very stupid. Check the history. --ChadThomson 07:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why Muhammed?

Is there a reason for the Muhammed reference at the end of the article? There seems to be an oblique implication to mentioning that Muhammed is considered a prophet of God in Islam in an entry for False prophet. If no one minds I am going to delete this. (seems to me like saying George W. Bush is the president of the US at the end of an entry for liar.)Sammydirectproduct 23:33, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Someone added the reference back to the completely-rewritten article in a way that makes more sense. I did some copyediting, since the He-was-a-good-man-who-never-claimed-to-be-what-his-followers-make-him school is out there, probably in no small part as a "Can't we all get along" gesture. Robert A West 22:08, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Starting Over

The new stub is not great, but it is, I think, acceptable. Robert A West 08:45, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cite sources

I was in a hurry to replace the original article with a decent stub, so I wasn't careful about citations. The article is now getting long and complex enough that we need to get careful about this. Especially in a topic as potentially hot as this one. Yes, this applies to me too. Robert A West 22:11, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Examples from Kings

I think that it is vital for the reader to understand that the court prophets, or at least many of them, were guilty of idolatry, and that idolatry was one of the principal charges against Ahab. Why was this deleted? Robert A West 18:23, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I feel that the defining thing of a "false prophet" is not that he worships a fake god but that he speaks with fake authority. The prophets mentioned in 1 Kings 22 speak not God's message but the message of the "lying spirit" – with disastrous outcome; on the contrary, the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18 are not mentioned to prophesy anywhere. That's why I feel the present version to illustrate the point better. Idolatry isn't really the defining point, anyone can worship an idol. You don't have to be a prophet. Pilatus 16:01, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

A prophet of Baal falls under the condemnation of Deut 13:1-5 as false prophet. The fact that their prophesies are not recorded strikes me as irrelevant. Whether the court prophets in 1 Kings 22 are the same as (or similar to) the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18, or were in league with them, is something that I have long taken for granted, but I agree it is not obvious. One can view the lying spirit, and its consequences, as punishment for prophesy without authority, and so the fulfilment of Deut. 18:20-22, or as the natural consequence of involvement with idolators, if not idolatry on the part of the prophet. Either way, I think your version obscures the issue. Robert A West 18:38, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Baal-worship is better subsumed under Deut 13:7-17, which is why Elijah has the Baal-prophets killed at the end of 1 Kings 18. On the other hand, the outcome of the "false prophecy" in 1 Kings 22 is death (for the king as substitute for the prophet). This is why I find the present version more suitable. Pilatus 22:12, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not convinced, but I will hunt up some commentaries and check this out more. Thanks. Robert A West 00:00, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers. I recently moved house, and most of my books are still in storage, 500 km from here. Pilatus 11:00, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"God" vs "god" POV

It appears to be non-NPOV to have a distinction between "God" (who is, in this article, Islamic or Judeo-Christian) and "god" (who is not Islamic or Judeo-Christian) in the main article. I suggest that the word "god" be changed to "deity" except as part of a quote. Shawnc 05:09, 15 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Views of Mohammed

"The status of Jesus outside of Christianity and of Mohammed outside of Islam is an important and controversial matter. For the most part Judaism does not regard either as a genuine prophet, but while some rabbis condemn them as false prophets, others deny that they prophesied at all, and blame their followers for misrepresenting their careers."

I've seen this view with respect to Jesus, but not Mohammed. Are there any citations?

Both have also been considered largely or entirely fictitious, views I consider unfounded but which should still be represented. A.J.A. 22:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The white horsemen?

The sentence about the white horsemen needs a proper citation. In Wikipedia, to state "It is thought that ... " without giving the "thought by whom" is just another way of disguising a POV. DFH 16:58, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FP

From what I can tell, there's supposed to be a modern-day false prophet. Well, guess who fits that description and has the same initials? That's right, Fred Phelps!!! --Jnelson09 04:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Citations

I have read, cover to cover, The Book of Mormon, The Qu'ran, and the King James Bible. Each had warnings similar to Matthew 7:15 - 23 cited here. Unfortunately, I can't recall the exact text and location of the related parts of these books. Hopefully one of you will. It would be great if additional quotations from these (and other) texts could be added to this Wiki.