Talk:William Luther Pierce/Archive 1
Edited article for greater accuracy. FYI: Hillsboro, is only a PO Box mailing address. Mill Point, is the actual place location. Added link to News Articles written by Pierce to References Section and to external links: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/bsearch.php?author=Dr.%20William%20L.%20Pierce News Articles written by Pierce
Added sources and facts about the SPLC "tax exempt" mis-characterization of Pierce's Cosmotheism and of "Who Rules America?" about claim of replacing elites:
Other criticisms have been harsher; for example, the Southern Poverty Law Center has often deliberately mis-characterized Pierce's religion of Cosmotheism as being "an unsuccessful tax dodge". In fact, Pierce won from the IRS in court at least 60 acres of tax exempt status land for his Cosmotheist Community Church, out of the total 346 acres that he had owned in Mill Point, WV, near Hillsboro, WV, and of which the other portions of land were for both the National Alliance Political Organization HQ and for some other buildings, etc., and for his National Vanguard Books warehouse and office and their other buildings.
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Although The Turner Diaries was only available by mail order and at extremist gatherings ... Um, you can buy it at amazon.com --Zoe
- Hence the "was." My copy comes from Barnes and Nobles. Danny
- Ah, thanks, I didn't understand your qualification there. --Zoe
- No probs. I am actually thinking of doing an article on the book itself, which had a profound influence on the militia movement. After I finish my president tables tho. Danny
- Yes, we do need an article on the book. I thought about starting one, but as I've never read it, I'm probably not the best person to write it. :-) Good luck at staying NPOV. -- Zoe
No matter where you bought your copy of The Turner Diaries, it was published via National Vanguard Books. Some printings are "Barricade Books" but that is a more recent run that National Vanguard outsourced. (Post Oklahoma-City era printings bear the Barricade Books logo.) Up until recently, both A9.com and BN.com listed it as "Special order from publisher, ships in 2-4 weeks." but now I see they stock it. My original copy was purchased through BN.com and it took 5 weeks to arrive. That was 2000. I've since passed on that copy and acquired a hardcover edition signed by Dr. Pierce himself. --Sponge
The use of the term "extremist" was very biased. The part quoted above, "Although The Turner Diaries was only available by mail order and at extremist gatherings..." is almost biased to the point of being inflammatory. One of those "extremist gatherings" where The Turner Diaries can somtimes still be found includes gun and knife shows. This even goes back to McVeigh himself, where the interest in the book is not always based on the racial aspect, but on the fictional (?) efforts of the government to ban firearms, etc. If I remember correctly, McVeigh said that one of the things that 'set him off' was the government seige of a Church in Waco, TX (which was supposedly started over firearms violations). RL Barrett 22:53 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
I noticed a few minor errors in this article. The name of the main character in The Turner Diaries was Earl Turner. Also, the bombing of FBI headquarters doesn't occur in the novel until the second or third chapter - the novel opens with the main character reminiscing about the "gun raids", when federal agents went door to door collecting firearms. The name of Pierce's radio program was American Dissident Voices, not Dissident Voices.
- Then please edit the article to fix the errors! :) Try it, it is fun. --mav
66.2.156.24/5's edit's appear very POV to me. Revert back to Snoyes edit. Just giving this brief explanation here. Flockmeal 03:19, Jan 11, 2004 (UTC)
- On the contrary, "Flockmeal" and "RickK" the edits are "factual" and "unbiased" as opposed to "Snoyes' own edit" which really was just typically JDL/ADL and leftist or Marxist "Political Correctness" POV propaganda.
- I have just reverted it back for factual "accuracy" and "objectivity" to the version as of 22:57, 11 Jan 2004.
- I agree, "fictional" and "novel" are redundant, but, "futuristic" is both more descriptive and accurate. Thanks! :D
- It ain't "futuristic". It's set in the future, but there's nothing "futuristic" about it. These words actually have meanings in conventionally-used English, you don't just pepper sentences with them to taste. - David Gerard 15:27, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)
I merged the content of the Cosmotheism article in here as a new section. --BM 18:40, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Broken links and external links
Due to the sensitive nature of Dr. William Pierces political view there has been censorship on this topic of valid external links.
- The current link to racialpride.com for a copy of the turner diaries does not work, and thus I suggest instead to include a working link:
[http //www solargeneral.com/library/TurnerDiaries.pdf Text of The Turner Diaries]
Other external links which are valid and were censored include links to the online NV newsportal http //www nationalvanguard.org
As well to the largest collection in the world of texts, essays, audio files and video produced by Dr. William Pierce on http //www solargeneral.com
I don't believe these links to be personal promotion, as Dr. Pierce is dead.
- If anyone's interested in learning more about the person who posted this, they might like to look here — the comment beginning: “It is clear that...”. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:25, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Censored Links
Why was this link removed from the Pierce article?
- [http //www solargeneral.com/library/Hunter.pdf Text of The Hunter] (PDF file)
Edits by 216.45.193.173
Edited article for greater accuracy. FYI: Hillsboro, is only a PO Box mailing address. Mill Point, is the actual place location. Added link to News Articles written by Pierce to References Section and to external links: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/bsearch.php?author=Dr.%20William%20L.%20Pierce News Articles written by Pierce
Added sources and facts about the SPLC "tax exempt" mis-characterization of Pierce's Cosmotheism and of "Who Rules America?" about claim of replacing elites:
Other criticisms have been harsher; for example, the Southern Poverty Law Center has often deliberately mis-characterized Pierce's religion of Cosmotheism as being "an unsuccessful tax dodge". In fact, Pierce won from the IRS in court at least 60 acres of tax exempt status land for his Cosmotheist Community Church, out of the total 346 acres that he had owned in Mill Point, WV, near Hillsboro, WV, and of which the other portions of land were for both the National Alliance Political Organization HQ and for some other buildings, etc., and for his National Vanguard Books warehouse and office and their other buildings.
- What text in your attached link offers evidence that the SPLC's characterization of Pierce's organization is inaccurate (he asked, quixotically)? --Goethean 18:48, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This text from the attached link offers evidence that the SPLC's "characterization" of Pierce's religion of Cosmotheism is "inaccurate", indeed, Goethean:
"That same month, Pierce bought the West Virginia farm. He converted it to a compound and called it the "Cosmotheist Community Church." Pierce then filed for Federal, state and local tax exemptions. But in 1986, the "Church" lost its state tax exemption for all but 60 acres and those buildings being used exclusively for "religious purposes.""
Pierce owned 346 acres of land at Mill Point, but, at least 60 acres of it was actually TAX EXEMPTED by the State and IRS, and then quite specifically and only for his religion or "Cosmotheist Community Church".
Therefore, actual "evidence" only suggests the exact opposite from what the SPLC had said, that "Pierce's religion of Cosmotheism" was characterized as being "an unsuccessful tax dodge". On the contrary, it was completely successful, but, just not for Pierce's either own "political" organization, the National Alliance, and nor for his own National Vanguard Books, however, or the other 286 acres of land of which were both denied any "Tax Exempt" status by both the State and the IRS.
There is nothing very "quixotic" about the actual facts and/or NPOV accuracy is there?
Thanks, and just don't be anyone's April Fool. :D
- Your point seems to be that Pierce's church was a successful tax dodge. --Goethean 19:09, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Yes, exactly, and just as are all "churchs" and just as are all "religions"! You got it, Goethean! So you are really no April's Fool, Goethean, afterall! LOL! :D The SPLC was wrong! The actual facts prove it.
- I would like to point out that, as is clear from this link, 216.45.193.173 has deceptively edited his own words on this talk page in order to make them relevant to my subsequent reply. If the facts prove me wrong, then why did you feel the need to change your own words? --Goethean 19:25, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
On the contrary, it is clear that I "edited" my words for "accuracy", as you should, and also, you should "cite" your own "sources" before reverting someone else's edits in the future. There is and there was nothing "deceptive" about my editing my own words, but, it sure was quite "deceptive", of you, falsely saying so, now wasn't it?
Another Red-herring and/or Strawman Arguement? The point has already been made and was proven by me, that the SPLC had "deliberately mis-characterized" and that the SPLC had falsely slandered "Pierce's own religion of Cosmotheism" by their falsely calling Cosmotheism or his religion an "unsuccessful tax dodge", and of which, it really wasn't. You can "make-up" whatever else you want about "my deception", but, like the SPLC, it also just can't stand up to the actual facts now can it? An April Fool, indeed! LOL! :D
- This anon is clearly not a new user; his style is very reminiscent of other PoV pushers who have been blocked or banned in the past. I think that we should ask someone to check into the IP address, and compare it to that of ex-users such as Dnagit. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:12, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- It's User:Paul Vogel, whose year-long ban has just started again. If he'd been able to keep off Wikipedia, it'd be up by now ... - David Gerard 01:11, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Ah, OK, thanks.
- With regard to recent changes, I made a series of copy-edits (correcting punctuation, adding Wiki-links, etc.) which were reverted by the Vogel-sockpuppet, and which other editors didn't notice when deleting his additions. I've just reverted to my version (but repaced Goethean's addition of a source). Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:59, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, cleaning up after Vogelisms can be a bit of work, since his stuff is of "shoot on sight" status. Sorry if I hit anything you'd added! - David Gerard 12:34, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I didn't add any sources. They were all added by Vogel. In fact, I removed one that didnt seem relevant. --Goethean 13:10, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Sorry — I must have misread the History. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:27, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
"Paul Vogel" is just the "excuse" "David Gerard" and BM and some others here of a certain POV bias abuse to censor this article and others without them providing their own factual NPOV citations or sources. Isn't your calling someones factual edits just "Vogelisms" a strange "personal attack" of some kind? I guess some at Wikipedia are allowed to do this, while others are not? Examples are: Pierce did die of cancer. His mountain headquarters was in Mill Point, WV, not really in Hillsboro, WV, which was just a PO Box address. Pierce's Cosmotheism was actually recognized by both the IRS and State as being a Tax Exempt Religion for 60 acres out of the 346 acres of land he owned at Mill Point, WV. And, also, "The Creativity Movement" or "religion" really has nothing to do with Dr. Pierce's "Cosmotheism", although, the "Transhumanism" movement actually does! http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:William_Luther_Pierce&action=history ETC., ETC.-ANON
216.45.221.155/Paul Vogel
It's been determined that 216.45.221.155 (talk · contributions) is in fact Paul Vogel. I've banned 216.45.221.155 for an initial period of 24 hours until I can ascertain the proper procedure with an IP-address sockpuppet of a banned User. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:13, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is easy for anyone to see in checking the histories of both this talk page and article that you are POV censoring any Anon's of this article "assuming" and "presuming" that they are all by this "Paul Vogel". I have checked the NPOV factual sources and the citations that were given by other anon's and by others that you and some others have either reverted, banned, or have censored and that prove your POV bias within this article and in others. You are not fooling anyone intelligent enough to see this fact. "Sam Spade" and many others can and have done so.