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This is the current revision of this page, as edited by OwenX (talk | contribs) at 23:37, 5 April 2024 (→Megaton (Fallout 3): Closed as keep (XFDcloser)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version.

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. There is a clear consensus not to delete the article. A discussion about a potential merge can continue on the article's Talk page, and doesn't require an AfD. Owen× ☎ 23:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Megaton (Fallout 3)

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Megaton (Fallout 3) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable, and if it is, why aren't there articles on other, equally notable towns in the Fallout series? Why just Megaton? --Bumpf said this! ooh clicky clicky! [insert witty meta-text on wiki-sigs here] 15:37, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. --Bumpf said this! ooh clicky clicky! [insert witty meta-text on wiki-sigs here] 15:37, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge - per WP:MERGEREASON. There's not enough sourcing or content present to sustain a stand alone article, especially if these overly long and drawn out direct quotes are trimmed down to a reasonable length. Really feels like it was particularly dragged out to create the illusion of needing a separate article. Sergecross73 msg me 15:52, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Virginia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Might do a WP:BEFORE and see if I can salvage this. This article relies on post-release sourcing, which suggests there is a wellspring of contemporary commentary, particularly in the treatment of the Power of the Atom questline that may justify its inclusion. That questline in particular was a major design anchor for the game and recieved specific praise. But I'm mindful until I find that sourcing this has a bit of a tenor of WP:ITSNOTABLE. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 22:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (as creator) I fully admit the current state of the article's sourcing is not up to par with the now-extremely-stringent WP:VG criteria for a standalone article. But there are certainly numerous reliable sources that talk specifically about the now-infamous Megaton and its highly notable decision. The AV Club and GamesRadar+ are already in the article, and TheGamer has yet to be integrated into it as it was written in 2023(!). There is also a VICE article that is not integrated as a reference yet. There is a ScreenRant article here as well, and I know some people do consider it proof of notability, even if others don't. In conclusion, these are WP:SURMOUNTABLE problems and I will try to expand the sourcing to fulfill the modern criteria. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:38, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I should also mention that the sole argument of the nom is that the page is "non-notable" which I have soundly refuted, so the nomination is already incorrect per WP:SK#3. Why there are "not other articles" on other notable towns is assumedly because nobody has written them yet. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:41, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    P.S. Found yet another article in Destructoid and a news mention of Megaton's explosion getting removed from the Japanese version here. Clearly I wasn't thorough enough in my initial search for sources, which I regret, but it should be clear that this is a notable page. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:48, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Don't worry, I got this. I should be providing a sourcelist in this discussion quite shortly. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 22:43, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Performed a non-exhaustive WP:BEFORE that illustrates that the location is notable and contains content that has been subject to enough significant commentary, paired with the other mentioned sources earlier, to merit an article:
    • In terms of magazines: Not as good as I hoped. That said, there's no shortage of contemporary sources that provide brief non-WP:SIGCOV praise or commentary on Megaton and the Power of the Atom questline, both as a highlight of the depth of locations and side-missions,[1] or the open-ended moral and gameplay choices available to the player.[2][3] Play briefly described the questline as being one of the "best moments" experienced on the PlayStation as one of the "earliest and most challenging" and character-defining decisions made in the game.[4] However! Edge provided an in-depth article on Megaton, outlining how it "epitomises" the game's "grand adventure", describing the Power of the Atom quest as "game-defining" and analysing the impacts of player choice on the game.[5]
    • In terms of books: Seems there's ample analysis. Harvard music professor William Cheng dedicated several pages to recounting and analysing the design of the game in reflecting the ethics and player agency experienced when detonating the bomb.[6] Tom Bissell briefly praised Megaton as an example of the game establishing the "buffet of choices" and open-ended "narrative viability" available to the player in the early stages of the game.[7] Marist College games professor Karen Schrier discusses and analyses how the game approaches moral problems in its Atom questline, critiquing the binary approach taken as "too moral" in its use of temptation to direct the player to good and bad consequences.[8] University of Groningen Media and cultural studies professor Lars de Wildt et al. discuss in depth the Children of the Atom in Megaton as a contemporary example of a new trope of post-apocalyptic faith in literature.[9]
  • Merge per Sergecross73. While the sources presented above are solid, they are not entirely about the location. They are about the narrative design of Fallout 3 or one of its questlines, and is therefore tangential to the location itself. Article, as it stands right now, is incomprehensible to readers who have no basic knowledge about Fallout 3, its themes and lores. OceanHok (talk) 16:32, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am unsure about how a quest that revolves solely around saving or destroying a single location of the game is "tangential to the location itself". It is in fact intrinsically about that location and the bomb in the middle of Megaton, saying it is unrelated to Megaton and only about "narrative design" is stretching it at the best of times.
    Any lack of context is a surmountable problem, but I'm just not seeing "incomprehensible". The lede clearly explains what the article is about and where it's from - a fictional town from the Fallout 3 game. Are you trying to suggest people don't know what a town, fiction, or a video game is? ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:55, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not to belabor the above point, but is the original comment's suggestion that the significant coverage would not support an article on Megaton but would substantiate an article for The Power of the Atom? If the article meets deletion, this might be a way to salvage some sourcing. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 22:25, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree with the idea of changing it to "The Power of the Atom" if truly necessary (in the vein of other similar articles like No Russian or Cat hair mustache puzzle that are solely about a "quest"), but I don't think it's necessary because there's so much discussion about Megaton itself as a town in the game world aside from the one quest. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good to know. If the AfD is successful I will have a go of drafting - you're welcome to help. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 22:44, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As I said, I don't actually believe the article should solely be about the quest, as AV Club and GamesRadar+'s articles are more focused on the town itself, so we'll see what other opinions say. There is the argument that if the article was solely about the town and not the quest, it wouldn't pass GNG, but I think the quest is so linked to the town that doesn't matter.
    If it comes down to it remaining as an article, though, I don't mind modifying it in such a way. The quest itself did get comparatively more coverage. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, but just planning for contingencies. Despite the above I agree the entire point of the town's concept and design is the bomb in the centre of it, which is inextricably linked with the quest to detonate or defuse it. It would be a little baffling to talk about Power of the Atom without first talking about Megaton. ＶＲＸＣＥＳ (talk) 00:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per Sergecross73 and OceanHok. I dug hard before chiming in to see what I could find through old development commentary and concept art in the event there's something to expand here, something to illustrate it as tangible beyond the game for readers to be able to comprehend it, but not really any luck.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and expand using the identified sources to cover the quest as well as the place. Sources 2 and 5 here are enough for a bare keep, and much of the rest demonstrate there's potential to write about the ethical in-game choice posed here. Jclemens (talk) 06:27, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BEFORE references

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  1. ^ Penny, Rachel (December 2008). "Fallout 3". Official UK PlayStation Magazine. No. 26. p. 54.
  2. ^ "10 Ways to be a Complete Bastard in Fallout 3". PlayStation Magazine. No. 17. March 2009. p. 86.
  3. ^ Porter, Will (October 2007). "Welcome to Vault 101". PC Zone. No. 185. pp. 44–9.
  4. ^ "The 200 Greatest PlayStation Moments". Play. No. 200. January 2011. p. 29.
  5. ^ "Places: Megaton". Edge. Christmas 2011. pp. 126–7.
  6. ^ Cheng, William (2014). "A Time at the End of the World". Sound Play: Video Games and the Musical Imagination. Oxford University Press. p. 4252. ISBN 978-0-19-996997-5.
  7. ^ Bissell, Tom (2011). "Fallout". Extra Lives: Why Video Games Mattter. Vintage Books. p. 7. ISBN 978-0-307-47431-5.
  8. ^ Schrier, Karen; Gibson, David (2010). "Moral Sensitivity and Megaton in Fallout 3". Ethics and Game Design: Teaching Values Through Play. Information Science Reference. pp. 41–45. ISBN 978-1-61520-845-6.
  9. ^ de Wildt, Lars; Aupers, Stef; Krassen, Cindy; Coanda, Iulia (2018). "'Things Greater than Thou': Post-Apocalyptic Religion in Games". Religions. 9 (6): 169.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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