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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ewan carmichael (talk | contribs) at 15:17, 19 June 2007 (St Giles never a Cathedral? Formally a High Kirk?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Cathedral?

Erm, as any good Calvinist knows, it's not a cathedral as the Church of Scotland has no such things. The Episcopal church does. Calling it a "cathedral" is a common misnomer. --MacRusgail 15:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not a misnomer. In the Church of Scotland, the word "cathedral" does not refer to the seat of a bishop. The Church of Scotland also uses the word "bishop", and that too has a different meaning from the episcopal one. Obviously the significance of this name is historical, but it is not an error. --Doric Loon 14:15, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I think you are both (a little) wrong! The place isn't really called 'St Giles Cathedral' at all - its name is 'The High Kirk of Edinburgh'. St Giles Cathedral is more of an honourific name that has become so established that even the church itself uses it sometimes. It isn't a Cathedral, and no-one at St Giles would claim that it is (regardless of what the CofS considers a 'cathedral' to be). Anyway, my point is that regardless of how accurate or inaccurate it is, 'St Giles Cathedral' is the name that it goes by much of the time and as such is a perfectly acceptable name to be quoted in the article.
As an additional thought, although todays use of the term 'Cathedral' is generally thought to be a result of both Charles the first and second designating it at such (for clarities sake I will point out that it was never a Cathedral pre-reformation) there is precious little evidence of this name persisting. As I understand it, all written references to the name occur far more recently, suggesting that it has either been rechristened 'cathedral', or that the name has only survived orally. Why this should be is difficult to say. The building, until the late 19th century, held a number of congregations that each had their own name - for example High, Old, West or Tollbooth Kirks. Perhaps StGiles Cathedral survived orally as a name for the overall building. An alternative explaination could be in the 19th Century restorations that sought to raise the perceived status of the place and create a Westminster Abbey for Scotland, in pomp, circumstance and memorial senses. Could this have spawned the name 'Cathedral'?Ewan carmichael 14:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent revision to church name text

I disagree with the recent edit stating that St Giles was never a Cathedral. As far as I understand it, it was an Anglican/Episcopal Cathedral twice, under Charles I and II. The following is from stgilescathedral.org.uk

"The Church becomes a Cathedral For more than a century after the Reformation, worship in St Giles’ was disrupted by the disagreements about church government. In 1633, King Charles I appointed Scottish Episcopal bishops in Scotland and in 1635 William Forbes became the first bishop of the new diocese of Edinburgh, with St Giles’ as its cathedral, which it remained until 1638 and again from 1661-1689. That St Giles’ is commonly called a cathedral dates from this period."

I also disagree with the comment that "formally it is a High Kirk". Yes, its real name is 'The High Kirk of Edinburgh' but to say that it is 'a' High Kirk implies that this means something in particular. There is no record of the origin of the name 'High Kirk' but it certainly conveys no status or practical distinction. There are a few points that should be noted here.

The argument that it is a title for churches in former cathedrals (as per Glasgow) doesn't really hold up when you consider Dunblane, Aberdeen, Dornoch or Kirkwall, which are not called 'High Kirk', or the many churches that are called 'High' purely because they are up a hill. This is hardly what you would call a conclusive pattern. As an aside, it would be interesting to know the real origins of Glasgow's 'High Kirk' name.

The name 'High Kirk' was in use in John Knox's time, which is pre-cathedral status ever being declared.

There is even an argument (not from me, but I can't remember exactly where I read it) that the name could be more related to the 'up a hill' origin than anything else. Some of the other congregations that met in St Giles had names that reflected their location within the building (e.g. West and Tollbooth). The 'New' or 'High' Kirk (both names are used historically), which is the congregation that now occupies the whole building, was originally situated in the chancel/choir area which, although actually down the hill on the outside, was higher up inside, as befits its previous use as the chancel.

There is also the suggestion that 'High Kirk' referred to its status as the kirk of what is now the council and of the Scots parliament. I don't know wha to make of that one.

Anyway, I prefer it the way it was before this edit, and certainly the suggestion that it was never a cathedral, and the misleading comments about it being 'a High Kirk' should be changed. Thoughts/objections anyone? Ewan carmichael 15:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Architecture - POV

Some of the recent edits on architecture have been very interesting, but others have been rather subjective. A neutral point of view should be maintained; please could wording such as "makes the inside needlessly dark (detestably so on overcast days)" be reconsidered. --Drumhollistan 11:16, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]