User talk:Atabəy

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User Behmod

Hi, I am sorry if you felt I was being unduly against you, Atabek, that was certainly not my intention. First of all I feel that you take every edit which is against you personally. I am neither anti-Azeri nor Anti-Turk as FYI, I am half Azeri and many of my family are Azeris. Also, I have intimate Azeri or Turkish(from Turkey)friends. I just have my point of view that might necessary the same with you, Dacy and even Hajipiruz. If you feel that we need to start talking. I am open to discuss these issues, away from the tension --behmod talk 16:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...

Why are you distorting facts? I have never revert warred.

Nagorno-Karabakh War - [1] Where is my revert warring? I do not see a single Azeri user contesting any of my edits.
Varoujan Garabedian - This edit (which was over a month ago) was a simple (and explained) removal of an unsourced statement and a highly controversial category. My next edit (a month later) has nothing to do with my previous revert and touches upon something to which I explained as well. And what do these ASALA articles have to do with Armenia-Azerbaijan 2? Maybe you have Pan-Turkic thoughts...I don't know but I do not see a link.
ASALA - Where do you see any edits (let alone reverts) done by me on that article, I do not know. My last edit on that article was in April and it was a revert on vandalism.

Show me other Armenia-Azerbaijan linked reverts I have done, not "and other". - Fedayee 00:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For the removal of the "See also", it is generally the way it is done in Wikipedia. When an article is already linked in the body, you do not need to double link it in a "See also". I learned this through a Peer Review at ARF article which is the reason that article does not have a "See also" section.

I can't believe you actually linked the Agarunov edit because you, of all people, should know that the neutral term we use on Wikipedia is capture. You do not know of occupy being POV? You do not know of resistance being POV? **Raising eyebrow**

The change on NK (done by a random IP) was not contested and that NK war page has been discussed over and over and over again and you know this very well.

I have explained the two Varoujan edits... - Fedayee 00:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then tell me, do you see the word "occupy" being used once in the NK war article in regards to Armenia-Azerbaijan? Why should we differ the use from one article to the other? Capture is an obvious compromise Atabek, you know all this, I am preaching to the choir. - Fedayee 00:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Armenian and Azerbaijani editors reached this compromise with the help of admins. Occupy to you, the UN, the media of Azerbaijan but liberated to Armenians. The middle ground is best to avoid conflicts here on Wikipedia since we have them so often. - Fedayee 01:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure exactly where in the NK article it was discussed but there are 12 archives and it was surely discussed over and over again (I, like you, was not part of any of these discussions). Nice try on the UN security resolution, it mentions only places outside Nagorno-Karabakh, NK is excluded thus making it considered disputed. And since Shushi is in NK then it is rightful to remain as neutral as possible in that disputed territory. Besides, I did not aggressively push my POV in that article, if I had done that, you would've seen "liberation of Shushi", I suggested a simple compromise that would avoid such conflicts. Your POV and "numbers" about "ethnic cleansing" are irrelevant to me and our discussion. - Fedayee 01:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anna Dili

Sagh Olasan ! Baghishlasoz ke manim Azeri yazmaghim yaxchi dayir (Please forgive me if my Azeri writing is not good!) . Indeed the false image that is inducted in our northern brothers is a side effect of long lasting Russian occupation. Neither prohibition nor restriction is seen in learning mother tongue Azeri in Iran. The point is that Persian language has a very long and powerful tradition of literature and writing that is not comparable to our oral language (Azeri) .That does not diminish or humiliate our mother tongue or culture: that is a technical and historical reality. As you know, not only in Safavid, Qajar or any other Turkish language Iranian dynasty but also in ordinary people, the written and official language has been Persian, in both north and south of the Arass River. More than that, in the Ottoman Empire, the official language of the royal court was also Persian: that can't be called imposing the language.... I think that's important to notice the point that Hasan bey Zardabi was fighting to use Azeri language instead of Persian, 50 years after the Russian invasion and cessation of any political Iranian influence in Caucasus : that shows the usage of Persian was not (and is not ) by force . Zardabi himself wanted to use Azeri just because he was Narodnik and Sunni and he did thought that the backwardness and poverty of Muslim Caucasians stems in conventional roots and traditions: indeed he was against every thing that was old and in Azerbaijan that meant Azeri historical and cultural heritage plus written language that was mostly Iranian. The changing of the script from Latin to Cyrillic and Arabic shows that the Turkish language still does not have stability and formal figure. Talking with my friends in Baku, I find it out in writing Azeri, the constant dilemma is to write down that is spoken! But that's never the case in Persian, because almost every word has it's own known etymology and there is no problem in writing it down . I can't understand how is it possible to know Azeri and not to know Persian?! As an example you write " hormetli Alborz, eger sozum sizi injitdise, uzr isteyirem" : "Hormat" is from "Ehteraam" , respectfulness in Persian and Arabic , "Egar" is Persian , "M" in "soz" is Persian , " Uzr " is "Pardon " in Persian and Arabic ! / "Zardabi" is Persian : and not Sari - Sue (yellow water) / Azerbaijan is also from AZAR (fire) and bijan (baygan = fortress) and so on ....
Goxma ! bizim vazi oujur dayiir ke san fikr elisan! Gina da Tashakkour ...--Alborz Fallah 09:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Söhbətinizə qarışdığım üçün bağışlayın, yəgin ki siz etiraz etməsziniz. I agree that there are many Persian loan words in Azeri language, but at the same time there are over 1000 Azeri Turkic loan words in Persian. I do not agree that Azerbaijani language had no written tradition, it exists since at least 14th century. While I agree that Persian literary culture is a lot older, it does not mean that we have no literary culture of our own. This is the point, we should care about our language and culture, and it does not mean that it is pan-Turkism or whatever, it is normal for any people to promote your own literary tradition. I regret that the relations between Azerbaijani and Iranian users came to such a point that we had to apply to arbcom, I hope for successful future cooperation in editing wiki articles. Grandmaster 10:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

San da chox xhosh galdoz ...we where talking about the unreal image of discrimination against Iranian Azeri's. I can understand that in the Azerbaijan republic, they compare the Persians to Russians and Iran to USSR because of lack of information and media biases. But that's a false image. That's impossible to consider them alike .I know that the self esteem and dignity of our Azeri counterparts suffered a lot in conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan and also in struggle for independent identity for a new country. But I'm insisting the same is not true about Iran and Iranian Azeri's. That prejudice about "torturing and jailing people for demanding language right" (as atabek says) as an on-going tragedy in Iran, is totally unreal and impossible in Iran: Iran is not and has never been a country like USSR.

About the inconvenience in arbcom , I think all of this begin when Dacy reacted in an unfriendly manner in Iranian Azerbaijan history and threatened to get it to the arbcom. Do you think is there any other choice for someone like me(Iranian Azeri)other than choosing Iran, when some one claims that "degree of integration of Azerbaijanis in Iranian society" is diminished because a mere cartoon ,by a personal opinion and not based on any text ? And what can I do when a hypersensitive person reacts a simple edit with improper response?In contrast,Grandmaster may remember my contribution in Paytakaran and willingness to support his point of view --Alborz Fallah 17:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For Atabek: Well, about the "Iranian Elements in Azeri grammar and vocabulary ", I can recommend [2] (section ix. Iranian Elements in Azeri Turkish ).Borrowing per se is not the important point , as French words in English and Arabic in Persian, but the point is frequency of usage and heritage of a language in the written from. As an example , the Arabic words in the Persian language have a background of a thousand years usage in the written form and the PersoArabic script was invented and used by both of Arabic and Persian in the same time. Then the Persian language has no problem in writing down , pronunciation or ethimology of a word like "Ehteram" , but in Turkish , we still have to search for a cast to write our language : if the tradition of writing Turkish has a long and applied history , then why after so much time , in resent century , it's script changed for many times ? Why there is no single script of Turkish in the tombs, mosques, coins or personal documents? What has been the reason for almost every Azeri poet to write more in Persian than Azeri or for many to write only in Persian?
About the Atorpat , the person's name itself is derived from the Persian word and the tile of Atorpat and Alexander was mentioned in an ancient Sasanid era book that it's name is Arda viraf nameh. Still in Persian, the word Azar means fire and is the name of the 9th month of the year, and the word padegan is used as an army fortress: that does not need any sophisticated etymologyical discussion. --Alborz Fallah 18:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that USSR was lot more liberal in terms of cultural autonomy that Iran ever was. While USSR was a totalitarian regime, it granted all people the right to promote their language and culture. For instance, in USSR Azerbaijani language had an official state language status along with Russian in the Azerbaijan SSR. All the official documents in Azerbaijan needed to be prepared in 2 languages, Russian and Azerbaijani. Even passports had 2 title pages, one in Russian and 1 in Azeri. There was a state run television channel in Azerbaijani language, plenty of newspapers, books, radio channels, etc. Azerbaijani language was taught in all schools, even Russian language schools had Azerbaijani language lessons. Same with universities in Azerbaijan SSR. You cannot say that Azerbaijani language has any status in Iran. The point of all this is not to make any anti-Iranian statement, I just brought this up since you mentioned USSR. In any case, I think we should refrain from confrontational approach and edit the articles in cooperation. I know that you are a good person, interested in the history of our region, and I’m sure we can improve the articles by joint efforts. Grandmaster 05:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Canvassing

Why do you continue to canvass every single report un-related to me with accusations against me Atabek? Because several Iranian editors are involved in editing Iran related articles this makes them all meat puppets? What about you, Dacy69 and your other pals? Dont you all edit several of the same articles? Why is that the only person throwing around accusations is you, have I ever called your friends meat puppets? If everyone on Wikipedia who edits in a certain way can be called a meat puppet, then that would make all Wikipedia's meat puppets, as every single Wikipedian has to take one side or another on an issue, because we all have our own opinions. What a ridiculous accusation to make, its completely based on "well, you edited there, and he edited there, so you guys must be meat puppets!" that makes no sense. I have told you several times to stop canvassing, but it seems that you just keep doing it more in an attempt to get me frustrated.Hajji Piruz 14:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbcom Injunction violation - Block

You have been blocked from editing for a short time in accordance with your revert parole Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.

≈ jossi ≈ (talk)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Atabəy (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Hajji Piruz is baiting using sock User:Naharar, an account which was established today. The sock is an imposter, apparently claiming to be in my favor. However, I have reported in my revert that this is clearly a sock [3] and emailed to User:Dmcdevit about it. The sock edited the page under IP address [4], which may trace to the same region where User:Hajji Piruz is. I am victim of intimidation by User:Hajji Piruz, he is wikistalking every single one of my edits and trying to get me blocked. It's a subject of current ArbCom. Please, unblock me, as this block is only encouraging the baiter, imposter and a sock.

Decline reason:

Sorry, violating an arbcom decison is not possible. You violated the arbcom ruling and have been blocked accordingly. — Alison ☺ 23:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.