Talk:Sock puppet account

Original research and POV issues

This article needs cleanup and a rewrite, as others have noted. Instead of adding more original research, to insert POV of opposite sign, let's start by looking at some other WP articles that had similar problems and overcame them. Internet troll is one article that comes to mind.

One editor seems unhappy that this article fails to discuss positive or neutral reasons an author might have for using more than one identity. Such a discussion might be a good addition to WP's article Online identity, but the term "sockpuppet" is never used for multiple identities except when one the added identity is used deceptively. Sockpuppet is a pejorative term for one specific misuse of multiple identity.

I'm giving this just a first whack, hope others will improve it. betsythedevine 16:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

For example, our sections here might include "Etymology" (origins and early uses of the term). "History" (examples of sockpuppet-type behavior in chronological order from earliest to most recent), "Accusations of sockpuppetry" (for techniques used to identify sockpuppets, and for professional sockpuppets' defenses against such techniques), "References", "See also" (for other Wikipedia articles with related content), and "External links" (for non-Wikipedia articles with useful content). Your suggestions, improvements? betsythedevine 01:38, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Add book review instances

Amazon reviews are no longer anonymous because of such "sock puppets". The NYTimes had a great article a few years back, when the policy was changed. It included several accounts of authors hyping up their own entries. Anyone with Lexis or NYTimes Select (though their search function is quite weak) and a bit of time should be able to dig it up. It's perfect for this article.

child nappers?

What about people who use the internet to trap children are they also not people pretending to be someone else.Maybe we can add that as well.Vmrgrsergr 03:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

That's not really the same kind of thing. Sockpuppetry isn't just about pretending to be someone else, its about what you do while pretending to be someone else. Sockpuppets often revolve around trying to convince an online community or group of individuals to sway to your cause/ideology, like in the case of people who use puppets during AfD, or to bolster support during an argument, or to try and push some political ideal/product. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who refers to child predators as a sockpuppet I think.--Crossmr 20:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Concern trolls and sockpuppets

I think the section on concern trolls is in the wrong article. While a concern troll could potentially use sockpuppetry in the course of their actions, it's not an integral part of them. A concern troll is just another variety of troll; they don't need a second account to accomplish their goal.

-- Chronos Tachyon 06:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I think concern troll deserves a mention here--in many ways it is the mirror-image of the strawman sockpuppet. In most of the cases that have come to light, the concern troll was a paid employee for one politician masquerading online as a "concerned" supporter of their employer's opponent. That kind of misrepresentation is classic sockpuppetry. We did have an article on concern trolls once--it got Afd-ed, and redirected to this page--and it's still redirected to this page, which now contains no information about it. I'm restoring that info, feel free to add it also to internet troll if you haven't already. betsythedevine 11:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

No it isn't. The strawman sockpuppet by necessity requires a second person to go and rebut its claims; the concern troll can stand alone. One high-profile case doesn't really make a difference here. Chris Cunningham 11:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that concern troll deserves its own article, really. It's not a perfect fit here, and it's an even worse one at Internet troll. To my mind the essence of sockpuppetry isn't that you have someone speaking in two different voices, it is that you have someone speaking through the pseudonymous sock. You did a great job cleaning up this article--can you find a way to do something sensible with the concern troll info? I think it's important to have it in Wikipedia. betsythedevine 11:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, "concern troll" itself is a very recent neologism (it turned up on, what, Kos or Atrios a year ago or so) and the exact definition is still a little murky to a great deal of people (witness the recent post on Time's blog where Karen asked the commenters to give a definition; they gave about five contradictory ones). It may be best leaving it for a while until the term gets used more commonly. Though I disagree with your characterisation of sockpuppetry; the whole thing that separates it from mere anonymity is that you've got someone nearby pulling the strings, so it's almost always employed in reference either to the master himself or to the master's opinions. I could go use a made-up account to go troll some message board about how bananas give people cancer and turn them into Communists or whatever, but unless I myself am involved in said debate somehow it isn't sockpuppetry. Chris Cunningham 12:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a cute analogy, but it begs the question of whether being "involved in said debate" requires you to have posted in the same forum under a different identity. If you are the CEO of Whole Foods then you are "involved" in any debate that might boost or harm your company's stock. It's interesting that the NYT today describes exactly such a situation as "sock puppetry"--where the CEO used the fake sockpuppet identity "Rahodeb" both to concern troll his rivals and to praise himself. [1] betsythedevine 14:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Early versus recent uses of "sockpuppet"

Does sockpuppetry require dual postings in the same forum under two different names? This may have been true in the past, but an article in today's NY Times uses the term in a much more general and (IMO) more widely-understood way to include pseudonymous postings by someone who conceals a real identity because the true motivations of that real identity would be transparent to forum members.

For example, Republican political consulant Tad Furtado had not posted under his real identity to any Democratic blogs--but the false identity he claimed there (an independent NH voter leaning toward the Democratic candidate) was a sockpuppet, according to the NYT today. Similarly, when Whole Foods CEO John Mackey used the pseudonym "Rahodeb" to post praise of John Mackey and concern troll "concerns" about a company Whole Foods was thinking of buying, the NYT identifies that behavior as sockpuppetry, with no suggestion that Mackey had posted to the same forums under his own identity. [2]

The common thread, it seems to me, is that the puppeteer has a public identity that must be disguised--not that the source of that public identity must be previous postings in the same forum under a pseudonym different from the puppet's. betsythedevine 14:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

More cleanup work

I've gone through and addressed some points raised. The article should be a little cleaner now. In particular I've given a link to the origin (I'd love a less self-published-looking link, but can't find one right now; the everything2 link gives an excellent writeup, it's just, well, everything2), cut down the huge list of synonyms in the intro (most of which appear to have been made up on the spot) and removed a lot of OR. Chris Cunningham 10:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)