Jump to content

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Coren 2

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< Wikipedia:Requests for adminship

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Rlest (talk | contribs) at 18:16, 27 July 2007. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Coren

Voice your opinion (talk page) (5/5/1); Scheduled to end 13:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Coren (talk · contribs) - I'd like to offer myself for the mop once more. I withdrew my previous request when it became apparent that the consensus was that I needed more experience and to correct a few failings, which I think I have.

My biggest flaw was, and probably still is, that I can sometimes be a bit too short with other editors. I think I can fairly say I've gotten pretty good at keeping my cool, and while I don't think I've ever been uncivil, I'm now much better at not biting and presuming intent. I'm no more perfect than anyone else, but I think my record shows I've gotten much better.

— Coren (talk) 13:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. You may wish to answer the following optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?
A: My strong point and focus will always be quality control; I'll keep doing new page patrol and XfD, of course, and lend a hand wherever a backlog beckons. I've gotten some practice (non-admin) closing AfDs, and I've been keeping a close eye on the various noticeboards to get a good feel on how the rules are applied in practice and what the community feels are the "right" way to handle various incidents.
I have a particular dislikehatred of spam, and will always remain vigilant to keep spammers away from the 'pedia and sweep up the... droppings... they leave behind.
2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?
A: Strangely enough, my deletion nominations. While there is the obvious directly positive effect of keeping some of the spam and vandalism off, it often happens that a well placed prod or speedy spurs editing a sub-par article into a good encyclopedia page. Unlike many, I don't see deletions as an adversarial process, but as a collaborative one. I'm always willing to give a good faith editor a hand into fixing up an article to make a csd or prod I placed moot; and I've likewise never hesitated to change my !vote on an XfD as the article improves— even if it's one I nominated.
3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
A: I've actually never gotten into an editing dispute that wasn't solved with a quick exchange of short notes. What conflicts I've gotten into were usually initiated by deletion nominations. I used to not realize how personally some editors could take a prod or speedy tag, and would react to angered reactions with defensiveness. Now, if another editor comes out aggressively, I will point him or her towards the relevant guidelines and policies and simply walk (click?) away.
Probably the best example I can think of is how I handled the (non-)deletion of Brahim Yadel. While the original editor quickly became extremely aggressive, I've successfully managed to steer the dispute back into civility, and helped him find the right things to include in the article to stave off deletion. In the end, the article became sourced enough, and the keep arguments strong enough, that it survived the AfD and came out stronger than when it got in.
4. Obligatory "How do you interpret WP:IAR?" question.
A: I've probably one of the most restricted interpretations of WP:IAR: I read it as "Ignore the letter of the rules when they prevent applying the spirit of the rules." I don't think policy and guidelines arrived by long (and sometimes arduous) discussion to consensus should be ignored lightly. I suppose it's possible to find an example where actually ignoring a rule really helped make a better encyclopedia, but I think that would normally be extraordinarily rare.
I tend to be instantly suspicious of invocations of IAR. If a rule should be ignored because it prevents doing the Right Thing in a particular case, then the right thing might be to revisit the rule itself— after all, consensus changes with time and what may have been seen as anathema two years ago might be viewed differently today.
I will listen to someone using IAR in a discussion, but the onus will lie entirely on him or her to demonstrate that by "IAR" they don't simply mean "Yeah, but my article is different/nicer/an exception".

General comments

RfAs for this user:

Please keep criticism constructive and polite. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Coren before commenting.

Discussion

Support

  1. Moral support for swimming in the shark pool. [1] But you should trust that seasoned editors can handle a lion pit [2] and some more mainspace edits would't harm. --Tikiwont 14:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support - good editor, seems experienced enough IMO. The diffs provided by Pedro don't particularly worry me; Coren was right to apologise for accidentally templating an established user, but I understand why he tagged the article in its original form for A7. And the second diff - admonishing a newbie not to sign articles - looks like a valid comment, and doesn't seem particularly uncivil to me. Further, I don't agree with the premise that extensive article-writing is needed for adminship; not everyone has the expertise or inclination to contribute masses of new content, and maintenance work is just as valuable for the encyclopedia. (We've had this discussion enough times at WT:RFA, so I won't go into it further). WaltonOne 15:46, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support. The diffs provided in opposition below don't bother me either, there's nothing in there to indicate Coren is untrustworthy or doesn't know policy. I can also find nothing to suggest he hasn't improved since the prior nomination. Contributions, particularly to the mainspace, may be thin by some standards but is sufficient for determining the candidate's capabilities in my book. ɑʀкʏɑɴ 15:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Support - I don't understand the oppositions. The differences provided aren't that big of a deal IMO and this user has a good number of edits as well as experience. Wikidudeman (talk) 16:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support The editor seems both nice and responsible, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be given the extra tools. Pax:Vobiscum 16:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Weak actual / strong moral support, changed from neutral as I just couldn't let Pedro's insufficient rationale go un-cancelled-out. Although I do somewhat agree with Chrislk02 and Husond, I do not see any serious deal-breakers. —AldeBaer 16:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
    I think I'm beginning to see a recurring theme here. :-) I'll put my money where my mouth is right now and go check the stubs to see if there are a few I can meaningfully flesh out. If nothing else, this RfA will have done more than waste a few electrons. — Coren (talk) 17:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

  1. I feel you are getting closer to being ready, however feel you need a little bit more mainspace experience and main talk space. (I.E., collaborative work on an article). While you have been a registered editor for quite a while, the majority of your edits have been in the past few months with a majority being in the user talk space. You have contributed to the wp and wpt space but i think a little more experience in those areas could not hurt as well. Overall, I would give it another month or 2 and i feel you would be ready. Feel free to seek me out for an editor review when the time comes and you feel ready. If I feel you are ready I may be willing to nominate you. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 14:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose, again, sorry. You've been improving, that is for certain. But I'm not convinced that you're ready to become an administrator mostly because you still have a rather low participation in the mainspace. Misplacing this RfA on this page also didn't look good. Keep up the good work and try again in a few months please.--Húsönd 14:07, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Heh. I got that right the first time.  :-) By the time I noticed, someone else had already fixed it. — Coren (talk) 14:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Heh, guess who... :-) Anyway, I hope that you don't feel discouraged if this RfA fails. You just need to improve a little bit more (IMO) and I'm sure that a new RfA in a few months will be most successful. Just keep striding and don't forget the mainspace.--Húsönd 14:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, I intend to let this one go all the way through, even if only to collect criticism for review. I think I'm ready, but if there is a consensus that I'm not it's important that I know why so I can address it. I don't think I'll ever rank very high in mainspace edits, mind you— the topics where I hold enough knowledge to feel comfortable editing are also the ones with the better coverage already so I rarely feel I can contribute that much... and since english isn't my native language, copy editing is iffy (I fear introducing errors rather than fix them).
    I did try my hand a bit with [3], with good results I think, so I'll be doing a bit more. — Coren (talk) 14:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Oppose Really sorry. You are doing some great work, reports to WP:AIV, discussion work and vandal reverting. However you are just too hasty at times. Husond didn't mention it but here where you tagged an article of his for speedy and then when you found out he was a seasoned and experienced editor backed down. Whether the account is a year or a day old makes no difference - you should have checked further before tagging. Again here you tagged an article that although short was clearly referenced and asserted notability so I can't see why Speedy Deletion applied. Finally this is a touch too bitey and particularly when you note the comment directly above it, applied at the same time. Like I say, a lot of your work is excellent, so don't be discouraged at all, but I just personally can't support giving you some extra buttons at the moment, particularly the delete one. Best wishes. Pedro |  Chat  14:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, I didn't back down. [4]. I did apologise for leaving a template on a seasoned editor's talk page rather than a short personal note. I doubt Hussond needed to be told how to place a hangon after all.  :-) But I stood by my A7 because, as it was, the article made no claim to notability. — Coren (talk) 14:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Per you own diff, you stated "But you are a regular, so I think I can trust you to work on the article and not just abandon it in this state." So I can only read it that you will apply speedy to newbies, but not seasoned editors. Sorry, that's just my interpretation but it still demonstrates you were too hasty, which is my point of concern. Also can you please put a # in front of indented comments as it blows out the numbering otherwise. Ta!Pedro |  Chat  14:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I also looked at the PTDI example you gave and, frankly, I don't understand it. The revision I tagged had no assertion of notability that I can see, and did read like a simple ad for a driving school (which is why I tagged it G11). Can you clarify why you chose that example? — Coren (talk) 14:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Pedro, I honestly do not see much validity in your rationale. Tagging that article was somewhat justifiable, and so was apologising to Husond. Most of all, I do not see anything bitey in this comment at all. Personally, I regard a flawed reasoning as even worse than a weak reasoning like Kurt Weber's running gag. —AldeBaer 16:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
  4. Double edit-conflict Oppose Too little activity with this account; the obvious errors are pointed out above, so work on eliminating those and participating more in the main space as well as vandal fighting. (aeropagitica) 14:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Oppose — I view self-noms as prima facie evidence of power-hunger. Kurt Weber 16:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Please ignore the above oppose, this user has a habit of repeatedly opposing self noms because they are self noms, he doesn't even take the time to review users so please ignore this. — Rlest (formerly Qst) 16:30, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not in favor of tagging every self-nom as an oppose, but do you have evidence that this user does not review the nominated users? Darkspots 17:44, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    "Prima facie" expresses just that, if I understand it correctly: It's not worth bothering to review a candidate if he or she self-nominated. —AldeBaer 17:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
    Ah, yes, I see. Thanks for the answer. In that case, I would add my agreement that, when it is easily possible to find out more about users, opposing them on this ground alone seems unfair. One should do at least the minimum of research or not participate in RfAs. Darkspots 18:10, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Kurt doesn't realise this is making him not popular on wikipedia, he's an idiot.Rlest 18:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral

(Changed to support) There are enough moral supports, and enough "moral opposes". Chrislk02 and Husond said it best: Get some more experience, esp. in the main space, and try again in about 2 months (in case this doesn't succeed). Good luck. —AldeBaer 16:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Coren_2&oldid=147497719"