Talk:Arab Americans
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This is a joke!
In recent centuries, there has been a major influx of Europeans into middle eastern countries; the result of which has been a number of lighter skinned people living in this region (i.e. Syria and Lebanon). However, you only need to look at a map to realize that "pure" Arabs (non-mixed) would need to have darker skin to survive in this area of the world thousands of years ago. I am an Egyptian-American and there is absolutely NO ONE who would consider me to be white. I am not arguing that the US census does not list Arabs as white -- I am just saying it is a HUGE flaw in racial classification considering pure Arabs are not considered white in US society. Arabs are a separate, ancient race and should be recognized as such by the US government. True, people from the northern countries of the middle east tend to be lighter skinned than those from southern regions. However, for someone to state that "Nordic and Germanic looking people" are native to Syria or Lebanon (as one person does below) does not make any sense whatsoever.
"White" is a somewhat flexible social concept that has had differing meaning throughout history, and has both included and excluded various Caucasoid peoples at one time or another, and acknowledging "honorary whites" at others. Is this suppose to mean that Arabs are non-white, but are rewarded the category of being of the white race? Arabs and other Middle Easterners are caucasoid, which happens to indicate that they're white.--Gramaic 01:29, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Arabs are not white,they are Arab which is completely different, there are some "white" people in North Africa, but in the Middle East you will rarely encounter a truly white, non-semitic group of people. In that sense, the white Arabs are not white as Europeans are white but rather a racial group of semitic descent that ranges from white to extremely dark.
- Concur. Arabs are considered racially white in the United States and considered caucasoid all around the world.
- <quote>in the Middle East you will rarely encounter a truly white, non-semitic group of people.</quote>
- Obviously your not that familiar with people from the Middle East. Semitic people are racially caucasoid, and not to mention there are a lot of semites who have blond hair and blue eyes. You should look into the racial makeup of Syria and Lebanon, in those countries you'll find quite a few Nordic and Germanic looking people. The majority of Arabs who live in Syria and Lebanon, are Medditerrannean looking people. A Syrian or a Lebanese (in most cases) can pass for a Greek or an Italian, which makes them very European looking. Just because a person is non-European doesn't mean that they're non-Caucasoid.--Gramaic 03:47, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It really boggles my mind why you keep insisting that Arabs are white like Europeans because that's how some Syrians and Lebanese look like. Look more towards countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Yemen, etc. on how Arabs *generally* look. I have relatives in Jordan; some look as black as Wesley Snipes; others look as white as Woody Harrelson. There are also some pretty light-skinned Pakistanis and Indians, and I can't think of anyone who would say something like "All Pakistanis are white." Hispanics in the United States pass for non-whites, despite the existence of Cubans and other "light-skinned" Latinos. Why not the same thing for Arabs?
Although there are more than one categories for arabs(egyptian,north african,etc.) you'll find that they are listed as "white". Not white as in the color,but they share the same genetic traits as other European groups. However, it lists Saudi Arabians as having a more closer relationship with that of Ethiopians which may explain some darker Arabs.As for the more "Nordic Arabs" as Gramaic was talking about,this may have been a result of European colonization.----Ashmole 20:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Look, Arabs come in a lot of different racial groups, there are Arabs that are certainly white, others that are not, such as myself. Being caucasian is not the same as being white all the time. I am caucasian but I have never been taken for a "white" person in all my life in the United States. My grandmother, who was Algerian, had blue eyes and red hair and was often mistaken for being Italian or the like. My mother, who is Lebanese and whose family has been in the States for decades does not look "white" at all. Being Caucasian is not being white. White is a social definition. It is not racial or genetic. There are people of African descent that go through their lives being viewed as "white" because they can pass. There are Arabs who look white and are Christian and are often accepted as being white. It is my experience that the whole idea of Arabs being "white" or not is nonsense. Arab is not confined to one race. There is no such thing as a Semitic race. Semitic and Arab are linguistic and cultural terms. A Semitic speaking person can be black (like an Ethiopian), white (like an Israeli Jew of European origin), somewhere in between or mixed (like many Egyptians and Saudis or Yemenites), or North African (most North Africans are not genetically "Middle EAstern" and have Berber origins, meaning that the original languages of the area were mostly Berber, and non-Semitic). The US system of racial classification is flawed, and "white" is used interchangably with "caucasian" even though the two notions are not the same in reality. There needs to be some kind of illustration of the diversity of Arab Americans in this article, not just a discussion of foolish theories of who is a caucasian and who is not. All Arabs do not look like Lebanese or Syrian people or Sudanese people (who are almost totally black or "AFrican" in their race). The Arab culture does not have a race. The classification of Arabs as "white" is a generalization. I think at least. El Moro.
- True, you find a large minority of Arab Americans have a fair amount of melanin (skin color) and ethnological characteristics found in a majority of north or east Africans and south Asians. Arabs are of the so-called Semitic branch of the Afro-Asian linguistic family, but are racially labeled as the white race (Caucasians) of "Armenoid" and Mediteranean stock compared to the northern/western Europeans ("Nordic" and "Alpine" stocks) in numerous studies of 20th century anthropology books. But the term "Arab" was derived from the tribes from Arabian peninsula and a certain nationality's native tongue was Arabic, a relative to other Semitic languages like Hebrew and Aramaic. + 63.3.14.2 03:06, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
- Language has nothing to do with race, as you find Arabs of various "Races" in the Middle East and Africa. Semitic langauges have nothing to do with Semitic "races". Clearly Arabs are classified as 'white" officially, but most do not regard themselves this way and are not treated as such in life (I say this as an Arab American talking about Arab Americans). Linguisitically yes, Arabic is related to Aramaic and Hebrew, but "racially" you find many Arabs having more genetically in common with non-Semites (black Africans, Beber North Africans, West Africans, west Med. Europeans) than with these so-called "Semities". Language and race are unrelated. This Semitic that or this has no place in the article as far as Arab race goes. What should be noted is that Arabs come in a variety of racial "forms" and colors and a classified as white regardless. There are Arab Americans who disagree with this, most advocacy groups and the like agree that Arabs are a minority and are not "white" in the sense that other "whites" are (Italians, Germans, Greeks, Anglos, etc.) whose whiteness is essentially unquestionable, but Arab"whiteness" is questioned and even revocked througout history socially and legally as the political climate changes. If you think all Arabs are white or one finds a "large minority" with a "fair amout of melanin" (which is not the case because everyone has it, and most Arabs are pretty dark, at least compared to other "whites") look at some elected officials of Arab descent or some religious leaders, not to mention read some article on the topic. It is fine to note the legal classification (which is the same for all Near Eastern peoples in America), but it is imparative that the actual case be mentioned, such as the development of the label, and opinion among Arabs of it. I think most people in New England (where I live) would agree an "Arab" is not white, at least a "pure" Arab (non-mixed). That has been my experience and my family's experience for several generations. I'm not saying all Arabs are not white or are, but one must discuss the complexities of Arab Americans in the Arab American article and not just dismiss them using phoney racial classifications, that are no longer used by government. Sure we're caucasians listed as white, but do people treat us that way in every day life? That is one of the major issues in the community today among leaders and those who think about these sorts of (I think stupid) matters. El Moro —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.37.53.43 (talk) 02:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC).
Famous Arab Americans
I think this is a very nice list, but I think it needs to be in a seperate article, and this seperate article should be called List of Arab Americans.--Gramaic 00:06, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
as i know. amin nazem zadeh is persian and not arab !!!!
I suggest you take off DJ Khaled. He doesn't make us Arabs proud.
Changing some numbers
The numbers at the top and bottom of the page don't match in terms of total Arabs in America. The number on the bottom is official, I'm changing the top.
CorneliusStump 21:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Need comment at deletion discussion
Please see the discussion here -- this needs more input from editors who actually work in this area. Badagnani 16:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
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