Talk:Trigun

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Archive 1

Love and Peace

Does anyone know the significance of the way that Vash crosses his fingers when he delivers the catch phrase? I think it might just be a gag. But I wonder if it has any other significance? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.92.115.49 (talk) 01:19, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Genres, categories, etc.

We're going to have to limit them per the WP:MOS-AM guideline, if possible. What are the most prevalent stylistics in Trigun? I know action is one. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:59, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As for categories: 1995 introductions, 1998 television series debuts, 1998 television series endings, Action anime and manga, Adventure anime and manga, Science fiction Westerns, Seinen, Shōnen can all go as they are mentioned else where in the article. Gerne don't need to be in the category section, and the categories Anime of the 1990s and Manga of the 1990s cover the first few.

As for genres: is it really a historical steampunk? It never really seemed like one to me. More just plain old western stuff than steampunk. Sci-fi Western or Space Western? Hmm... I can't really make up my mind on this. I don't really see much of a difference between the two. Trigun has sci-fi elements on a western background, and western elements on a space background, at least in my opinion.

Well that's all I have, I hope you find my opinions useful for cleaning up this article. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:04, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anime/manga-related cats would do nicely for articles like this one. The problem I have is the genre box, which is overloaded. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 13:22, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think historical steampunk is the right term. I think it's just steampunk. It's a space western because it's themed like a western but takes place on another planet. Sci-fi western, because of all the talk of plants and shit and the fact that it's OBVIOUSLY a western. I mean, there are so many western archetypes. Like Legato eating before kicking the shit out of everyone. That's common in westerns. Plus, all the towns are designed like the Old West. I don't think this would exactly go under shonen. Doesn't seem very shonen to me. Plus, it has lots of adult jokes. Can't something be a sci-fi western AND a space western? I mean, yes, the two things are OBVIOUSLY different. Like, Wild Wild West was a steampunk and sci-fi western, but it wasn't a space western. Trigun is a space western as well as a sci-fi western because it happens IN SPACE, kinda like how Cowboy Bebop is a space western. I mean, there's even old western-like music. Philisophical... THAT'S the one I'm not so sure about. Yes, there is a philosophy about like being against the death penalty and like when they talk about the spiders killing the bugs and such, but I'd think that something like Evangelion would go more under that category. Can't things have more than one category? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ForestAngel (talk • contribs) 10:04, 30 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the thoughts, and I've changed some things in accordance to the discussion here. Truth be told, it did always seem more like Seinen than Shonen to me. And of the Adventure genres? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I take back what I said about the categories - the only ones I don't like are all the ones related to stuff starting and ending on certain dates, but those seem to becoming more widely used so I guess it doesn't matter. Probably the best way to clean up the categories would be for us to clean up the article so we can get rid of all those warning tags. Oh yeah, I like the edits you made Sesshomaru - they really fixed things up well. --Eruhildo (talk) 22:06, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but is this the best we can do for the genre box? I'm sure it can be improved further per WP:MOS-MANGA. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:28, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) Ok, how 'bout this: Adventure and Action kind of overlap a bit and after going over their respective articles, I think Adventure is more appropriate. As for the other two, I feel that it is both a Science fiction Western and a Space Western. If we do it

[[Adventure film|Adventure]], [[Science fiction Western|Sci-fi &]] [[Space Western]]

it will all be on one line - at least, that's how it displays on my system. Well those are my ideas. --Eruhildo (talk) 08:31, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not bad, though wouldn't it be more appropiate like so: [[Adventure film|Adventure]], [[Science fiction Western|Sci-fi Western]], [[Space Western]? One Piece has both Action and Adventure, perhaps it should follow a similar format? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:48, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As to your first question: probably yes - I was just trying to come up with a way to put it all on one line. As for your second question: I've never seen One Piece so I couldn't judge one way or another. Let's just do this: [[Adventure film|Adventure]], [[Science fiction Western]], [[Space Western]] and be done with it. That will keep Space Western from being broken across two lines - at least that's how it shows on my system. --Eruhildo (talk) 02:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. {^_^} Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 09:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[[Adventure (genre)|Adventure]], [[Science fiction Western]], [[Space Western]]

This is what the article is using ever since the newer adventure genre was created. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:38, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't that a bit redundant? Apparently, Category:Space Westerns are a sub-genre of Category:Science fiction Westerns--Nohansen (talk) 03:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That explains somethings, let me admit I never did see the differences. What would you suggest, genre-wise? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's dificult to say. Going by the memory of watching the anime, I'd say drop "Space Western". While the series does take place in an alien planet, the problem is it only takes place in that alien planet. It doesn't use the "Space as the American frontier" motif others use, where mankind's trip to the stars gave rise to lawlessness and frontier "towns" (or planets).

Take Cowboy Bebop. The story takes place in a future when mankind took to the stars (the "final frontier") and never looked back. Space in Bebop is a lawless frontier and the different planets are analogues to the frontier towns of Western fiction. It also fits with Wikipedia's definiton: it "transposes themes of [Western fiction] to a backdrop of futuristic space frontiers". The western motifs (clothing, speech patterns and tumbling tumbleweeds) are not a necesity, but are a welcomed addition (Firefly).

Or just call Trigun a Weird Western and be done with it. After all, it features western motifs in an alien planet populated by monsters, cyborgs and whatnot.--Nohansen (talk) 15:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can see how Cowboy Bebop would fit more into Space Western. Though would Trigun also belong in a steampunk? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 15:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From watching the anime, Trigun is not steampunk. Also, I don't know of any reliable sources that define Trigun as steampunk. The only Google hits I find for "Trigun" and "steampunk" are Wikipedia mirror sites and blogs or forums posts (that were probably influenced by an old revision of this article).--Nohansen (talk) 21:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, maybe not steampunk or historical. Here's how I see it:

[[Adventure (genre)|Adventure]], [[Weird West]]ern

I'm assuming we're keeping adventure and replacing the last two with wierd western, no? And might I suggest the inclusion of action? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I left a comment in the Space Western talk page where another editor showed concern over Trigun's categorization as a Space Western. Like you said, the line between "Space Western" and "Sci-fi Western" is not that clear. Heck, the terms are practically interchangeable. Who knows how people will react if we change the genre to "Weird Western"!

I want to see if someone responds (here or there) before making any changes.--Nohansen (talk) 03:41, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But what really is the difference between the two? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Space Western transpose Western themes to Space. Sci-fi Westerns add science fiction elements to Western settings.--Nohansen (talk) 06:03, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And Trigun is a ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Both? --Eruhildo (talk) 07:45, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the thing, Eruhildo: If Trigun is a "Space Western", then it can't be both because (as far as Wikipedia is concerned) "Space Western" is a sub-genre of "Sci-fi Western". But, to me, Trigun is not a Space Western because, while the series does take place in an alien planet, it only takes place in that alien planet. It doesn't use the "Space as the American frontier" motif others use, where outer planets stand-in for frontier towns, etc. Admittedly, the story's background concerns humans looking for hospitable planets but, from what I remember of the anime, the main plot doesn't concern itself (too much) with this. To me, the Macross series (not counting the original and Macross Zero prequel) are anime examples of Space Westerns.

Another thing: both labels are practically interchangeable in the popular vernacular. Also, Wikipedia's articles don't provide much in the way of citations and have no way to prove they're reliable. Space Western's article cites Star Wars as an example... Who's to say it's wrong? I even remember reading an interview with Jane Espenson where she said she thought Joss Whedon came up with this whole "cowboys in space" thing. Personally, I say it was the Steve Miller Band.

Furthermore: I only brought this up because (according to Wikipedia), having both genres is redundant. Like saying "Blade Runner is a [...] science fiction cyberpunk film..."

In the end, it should be one or the other. But since it has been argued that Trigun contains elements of Space Western and Sci-fi Western, my recommendation was to call it a Weird Western. What say you?--Nohansen (talk) 05:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could you change the Science fiction Western and Space Western articles to reflect what you just said? 'Cause that makes a whole lot more sense to me than what they currently say. After reading that, I'd say Trigun would fit best under Science fiction Western or Weird West. --Eruhildo (talk) 22:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nohansen, if you do change them, could you provide a WP:SOURCE for each edit? From the looks of it, original research is all I'm seeing here. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, but can I get some additional thoughts back here? I just recalled something [rather] important at the last second. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Any speculation as to a Trigun: Maximum anime? the manga did end in 2007 soo it is possible >.>