Talk:Psychobilly

Stylistic Origins

'Driven by the rhythmic pounding of a stand-up bass, the music swings with the snarl of punk rock while sometimes thrashing alongside speed metal or crashing headlong into country icon Hank Williams'

Is that being used to add 'speed metal' to the stylistic origins? It seems unsuitable since it says sometimes which means it doesn't go for much of the genre.

'The music appeals to fans of punk, indie, metal, new wave, goth, rockabilly, surf, [and] country'

This? Surely not? Appealling to fans of other genres does not make the genres stylistic origins for this one. Munci (talk) 07:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

All of those are genres which stylistically influence psychobilly from approx. the third wave onward (as the history section elaborates). I could give quite a few specific examples, amongst them Tiger Army who have songs on each of their albums that are either heavily country-influenced or just straight-up country (see the music samples), and Nekromantix, who as the style section explains had one of their albums nominated for a Grammy for "best heavy metal album". The magazine article that I used to source most of this article gives mentions of how each of the genres listed has influenced psychobilly and affected the style over the years. The quotes I chose just seemed to sum it up best and rather succinctly. Again, I could give examples such as the HorrorPops whose music shows strong influences of new wave, pop, and goth (note there is a reference for this as well: a review of their latest album in Alternative Press). I'm going to look for additional sources, since one of the article's weaknesses at this point is that it relies almost entirely on a single source, but I don't think any of these genres should be removed from the infobox. They are all styles which have influenced psychobilly throughout the genre's history. The bottom line is that there are reliable sources supplied in the article body to support the genres listed in the infobox, which is more than can be said for a majority of music articles on WP at the moment. --IllaZilla (talk) 07:31, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

The quotes chosen are inappropriate for showing that another genre was part of the stylistic origns for psychobilly. The fact that many of the bands are x-influenced psychobilly does not make it that psychobilly is For example, Tiger Army are both country and psychobilly. This does not mean that psychobilly as a whole is influenced by country. Psychobilly may well be influenced by country, but the fact that Tiger Army have elements of both is not evidence that it is. Also, these are taken from the third wave you say. Stylistic origins is for how the genre started out so it should be the genres that were inspiration for the first wave that should be in there and it should be genres that influenced a majority of the bands not just some. Munci (talk) 19:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Judging from the article the stylistic origins should be punk rock, rockabilly, horror films and garage rock. Munci (talk) 08:45, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Let me give some direct quotes from the magazine article that I used as a source for most of this article:

• "Psychobilly is both a sound and a way of life, with roots as deep as street punk, Two-Tone ska or the Oi! your friendly neighborhood skinhead is rocking." (p. 77)
• "It's a mix of U.K. scooterboy, skinhead, punk and rockabilly aesthetics." (p. 77)
• "...the music swings with the snarl of punk rock while sometimes thrashing alongside speed metal or crashing headlong into country icon Hank Williams." (p. 77)
• "...while there were certainly rockabilly and garage-rock bands who influenced what would become psycho, it wasn't so much about one morphing into the other, as it was all of them happening simultaneously." (p. 77)
• "These bands are characterized by their ambitious experimentation, as hardcore, metal, country, goth and ska all got stirred into their psychobilly brew." (p. 78)
• "The music appeals to fans of punk, indie, metal, new wave, goth, rockabilly, surf, country." (p. 78)
• "Largely influenced by punk rock and Oi!, as well as rockabilly's simplified instrumentation..." (p. 82)

Obviously it's pertinent to paraphrase/synthesize these various influences into the article body and the infobox. I see no reason to remove genres from the infobox that are discussed in the article body with appropriate references. The biggest problem with the "origins" field in most genre articles (and the "genre" field in most musical artist articles) is that the genres listed are not supported with any commentary or references elsewhere in the article. That being the case, why nitpick about the genres listed in this infobox which are supported by referenced commentary in the article body? --IllaZilla (talk) 06:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Being discussed in the body of the article with references is not sufficient for them to be considered stylistic origins. These sources need to say that the genres are actually influences, not just vaguely related.

• p77:Having roots as deep as something does not mean they have the latter as origins. By this sentence, the article is comparing this subgenre of punk to other subgenres, saying they are similar in that the other 3 subgenres are also considered to have 'deep roots'.
• p77:This is fine because it talks of the genre as a whole being influenced by these.
• p77:This I have already talked about. The operative word here is 'sometimes'. It doesn't apply to all or even a majority of bands and therefore should not be put as stylstic origins.
• p77:This is fine.
• p78:This talks of bands experimenting with an established genre called psychobilly, not mixing these genres to create a new genre called psychobilly. It also uses 'their psychobilly brew' implying the mix was specific to the particular band or particular bands, rather than being added to psychobilly as a whole, in which case it would use 'the psychobilly brew'.
• p78:Having the same fans as another genre does not mean they are influenced by that genre.
• p82:This is fine. Munci (talk) 11:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Inspiration/Influence for Psycho....

I hate to be a nit-picky prick.... but at least half of the bands listed (and audio sampled) do not fit the genre of Psychobilly "proper".

I mean Living End? C'mon..... not even close to Psycho. It even violates the "No politics-just rock" Law of psycho.

What ever happened to the Klingonz? The Frantic Flinstones?

This wiki reads like it was written by a 19 y/o hot topic kid that found out about psychobilly last week when he jacked one of his older sister's Tiger Army albums. I hate to sound like an elitist music snob, but one must ask onesself... "what would Fenech say?"

Seary6579 (talk) 00:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, I stand a little corrected... (been drinking, read more thoroughly), but still, the music samples to represent Psychobilly still kinda suck. Tere are far better examples... maybe when I sober up a bit I'll hook it up with some.

Seary6579 (talk) 00:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I rewrote the whole article from basically a stub. For the record, I'm a 27 year old who is actually writing his master's thesis on the impact of punk & alternative music. The problem with working on this article was a lack of secondary source material. I really wanted to improve it, but I only had 1 good magazine article to use a source. So I stuck to what the source said, which is one of Wikipedia's core policies. I'd love to have included some of the groups you mention, but I've never heard of them, much less found any sources from which to write encyclopedic content about them. As for the Living End, the article addresses their relationship to psychobilly. They share many of its musical characteristics and are a highly notable band with (loose) ties to the genre. For the music samples I stuck to acts/songs that were discussed in the article's prose. I feel they are good examples of some of the more notable psychobilly acts. Though you are welcome to suggest improvements, I'd ask you to be more civil and assume good faith both on my part and on the parts of others who've contributed to this article. Wikipedia is not a fan page for "true psychos" to gush about their favorite bands and rip on those they think suck. It is an encyclopedia, and we have to stick to notable subjects and reliable sources. --IllaZilla (talk) 02:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

1st and 2nd wave?

Not to be a grump, but there was a Euro scene at the time you call 'UK 1st wave' for instance Batmobile (1983, headlined numerous festivals including te KlubFoot), so the evolution written here is wrong and incomplete.--JJHammer (talk) 06:16, 09 May 2008 (UTC)

That may be your estimation, but the article sticks to what its sources say. I'm sure there were bands elsewhere in Europe, but the main source for the article is pretty clear on London being the epicenter of early psychobilly in Europe. It's not me calling the first wave British, it's the source. I've never heard of Batmobile, and they're not mentioned in any of the sources currently used in the article. If there were a source, then it would certainly be worth mentioning in the article. But at the moment there isn't. --IllaZilla (talk) 05:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree on London being the place where it all started back then. I was only stating that there was a big scene in Europe as well before the peiod that's called 2nd wave. And Batmobile was and still is one of the main bands in the scene, I just think the article isn't complete without them.--JJHammer (talk) 08:43, 09 May 2008 (UTC)

I recommend this website: http://www.wreckingpit.com or http://www.wreckingpit.com/psycho/bands/batmobile.php3 or you can check out this myspace site: http://www.myspace.com/batmobillly (talk) 18:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)