Talk:Tropical cyclone scales

Merge?

Unless this can be expanded it should just be merged into tropical cyclone, which probably has all the relevant information already anyway. — jdorje (talk) 17:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Merged out of the article now. Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 04:40, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be merged into the Tropical cyclone scales, since it is a main article from a category of tropical cyclone, which specifically discusses the storm scales such as super typhoon. The article Tropical cyclone only has a brief description of the scales and links to the main scales article. Mtmelendez 13:57, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I think we should merge the catgories into the Hurricane Page as well

New table

Tropical Cyclone Classifications
Beaufort scale	10-minute sustained winds (knots)	N Indian Ocean IMD	SW Indian Ocean MF	Australia BOM	SW Pacific FMS	NW Pacific JMA	NW Pacific JTWC	NE Pacific & N Atlantic NHC & CPHC
0-6	<28	Depression	Tropical Depression	Tropical Low	Tropical Depression	Tropical Depression	Tropical Depression	Tropical Depression
7	28-29	Deep Depression
	30-33						Tropical Storm	Tropical Storm
8-9	34-47	Cyclonic Storm	Moderate Tropical Storm	Tropical Cyclone (1)	Tropical Cyclone	Tropical Storm
10	48-55	Severe Cyclonic Storm	Severe Tropical Storm	Tropical Cyclone (2)		Severe Tropical Storm
11	56-63						Typhoon	Hurricane (1)
12	64-72	Very Severe Cyclonic Storm	Tropical Cyclone	Severe Tropical Cyclone (3)		Typhoon
	73-85							Hurricane (2)
	86-89			Severe Tropical Cyclone (4)				Hurricane (3)
	90-99		Intense Tropical Cyclone
	100-106							Hurricane (4)
	107-114			Severe Tropical Cyclone (5)
	115-119		Very Intense Tropical Cyclone				Super Typhoon
	120	Super Cyclonic Storm						Hurricane (5)

I've created this table to try and more neutrally represent things. I've added the SSHS coloration to the NHC table, which is why it is at the far right. The US 1-min speeds have been converted using a 14% reduction factor which seems standard; see the discussion on Talk:2003 Pacific typhoon season. It may be an idea to incorporate the Beaufort Scale into this table as well. What do people think?--Nilfanion (talk) 12:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks good, and I think including the Beaufort Scale would also be a good idea. Also, since we use the SSHS colors for the Australian scale where it appears on Wikipedia, we could use them in this table as well. —Cuiviénen 01:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually we use the color for the SSHS category of Australian storms, see how Cyclone Larry does it. We could just color in the whole table with the SSHS colors (split typhoon up for instance) but that would lose the clarity and look hideous. I've added the Beaufort scale now too (without that articles colors it would overwhelm IMO).--Nilfanion (talk) 08:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

And we could split up the windspeed like Beaufort scale does it, so we have knots, km/h and mph all listed.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Here brings up an issue I had never even thought about until I found it: how do you measure gusts? Do you use 1-second, 3-seconds, or apply a factor to the sustained winds? Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 23:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

IIRC there isn't that much difference between a 1 and 3 second averaging time (can't remember where I saw that) and I there is no simple relation between gusts and sustained winds (hence the edit war on Cyclone Larry). As for the relation of the Aus scale to the SS scale the Dvorak table at the bottom here is probably the best sign that the above table is valid - DT is how most storms are measured, its only the Atlantic and landfalling storms which get better treatment. I wonder if we should remove the actual windspeeds from the above table completely, as it compares to the Beaufort and SS scales it gives all the info someone would need to compare the scales, without a complicated explanation of the 10-min thing.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

What about PAGASA? Do they use a similar scale to JTWC, or to JMA, or do they have their own system? I remember that they called Bilis a typhoon when everyone else called it an TS/STS. Also, we should probably drop coloring for the SSHS if we're not using for anything else since IMO it draws too much attention to the US scale, making it seem somehow more important. I've also added specifications for where the NHC and JTWC cover. —Cuiviénen 02:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes the color does unbalance the table, the colors should be introduced on the section on the SSHS. I think, though I can't remember the source, that PAGASA uses 1-minute winds, probably due to the US influences in the country. Here's a PAGASA source on their scale. The only reason for mentioning the JTWC is that it was official in the NW Pacific, so older typhoon articles should use its data.

I've also redone the headers so the regions mention the RSMC for the basin. That means there is a redlink. I'm not sure if I have got the initialisms completely correct.--Nilfanion (talk) 12:15, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The last two columns seem very off on the conversions. For example, look at Damrey [1]. MSW at 10-minute average is 90 knots and at 1-minute average is 155 knots. It should be considered a Super Typhoon by the JTWC, but it doesn't meet the criteria. There are lots of other examples. Good kitty 21:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Nope the last column is correct. There is a standard ~15% conversion factor between the windspeeds in the literature. The problem is the JTWC disagrees with the RSMCs a lot of the time, when Damrey was at its peak it was 930 hPa/90 kt according to the JMA but according to the JTWC it was 155 kt which corresponds to 879 mbar according to the Atkinson-Holiday table in Dvorak technique.--Nilfanion (talk) 22:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

What does China use? I was just talking to a Chinese friend about a 1-8 scale for typhoons, but that doesn't seem to be for typhoons proper. -128.32.176.131 00:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)!

I think Hong Kong uses a typhoon scale which represents the threat to their portion of China. Thegreatdr (talk) 19:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

SI FTW, imperialistic bastards!

Why in the world are the values on this page backwards? SI notation is the world standard, not American imperial.

{{Sofixit}}. Titoxd^(?!?) 03:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Australian Catagory Colour

I felt that the Australian System should have their own colours. I decided to have a play around and this is what i came up with. Tell me what you think.

Australian Category	Maximum wind gusts (km/h)	Maximum sustained winds (km/h)	Corresponding Beaufort Force
	Effects
Tropical Low	≤125	63-88	Gale (8-9)
	Negligible house damage. Damage to some crops, trees and caravans.
Category 1 Tropical Cyclone	≤125	63-88	Gale (8-9)
	Negligible house damage. Damage to some crops, trees and caravans.
Category 2 Tropical Cyclone	125-169	89-117	Storm (10-11)
	Minor house damage. Significant damage to signs, trees and caravans. Heavy damage to some crops. Risk of power failure. Small craft may break moorings.
Category 3 Severe Topical Cyclone	170-224	118-159	Hurricane (12)
	Some roof and structural damage. Some caravans destroyed. Power failures likely.
Category 4 Severe Topical Cyclone	225-279	160-199	Hurricane (12)
	Significant structural damage. Many caravans destroyed and blown away. Dangerous airborne debris. Widespread power failures.
Category 5 Severe Topical Cyclone	≥280	≥200	Hurricane (12)
	Extremely dangerous with widespread destruction.

--Seddon69 17:49, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Philippines - "Signal number x" categorizations

In this article:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20080622-144136/Frank-leaves-at-least-229-dead-700-missing

discussing the impact of Typhoon Fengshen (locally, "Frank") on central and northern Philippines on June 21-22, 2008, there is mention of:

"Public storm signal number 3 (100 to 185 kilometer per hour winds) was raised in Metro Manila, Batangas, Laguna, Cavite, Rizal, Bulacan, northern Quezon, southern Aurora, Nueva Ecija, Pampanga, Bataan, Zambales, Tarlac, Pangasinan, Benguet, and La Union.

"Signal number 2 (60 to 100 kilometer per hour winds) was raised in the Mindoro provinces, Lubang sland, Marinduque, the Bondoc Peninsula, Polilio Island, the rest of Aurora, Quirino, Nueva Vizcaya, Ifugao, Mountain Province, and Ilocos Sur.

"Signal number 1 (30 to 60 kilometer per hour winds) was raised in the Calamian Group of Islands, Romblon, Camarines Norte, Isabela, Cagayan, Kalinga, Payao, Abra, and Ilocos Norte."

Is this "Public signal number x" scale specific to the Philippines? I haven't been able to locate a definition of this scale, but I think it should be added to the article when a citation is found.