Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Toronto Blue Jays managers/archive2

List of Toronto Blue Jays managers

previous FLC (08:36, 17 July 2008)

I am re-nominating this article because I believe it actually deserves to be promoted to featured list material. Annoyomous24 20:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Crzycheetah 23:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I can't verify any info in the "playoffs" column. Needs sources. DONE! --Crzycheetah 21:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Not done! I still can't find it.--Crzycheetah 02:03, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I hope this way would work. Annoyomous24 00:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

It would, but I think listing just one link would be even better. It took me 5 mins to find it. ;) Put it as an in-line citation in the "playoffs" column.--Crzycheetah 01:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

DONE! Annoyomous2403:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"Number of coaches" is ambiguous and should be changed to maybe terms of coaches(?)

GC should be changed to GM (games managed)

Crzycheetah 03:15, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Done the second bullet. I don't think it's ambigous since almost all sports list related to coaching use it so I don't think it is going to be a problem. Annoyomous24 20:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comments
  • They are the first and only team.. - the second part of this sentence is redundant.
  • With the fellow Canadian franchise ... - this sentence should be reworded better.
  • He is followed by Bobby Cox with in both categories with 648 games and 355 wins - Should be reworded
  • Gaston is the only... and Cox is the only... - either these two sentences should be reworded better.
  • The fact that Cox won 1985 AL Manager of the Year is not sourced.
  • Whenever I click on the "c" footnote, nothing happens because there is no 'c" note in the notes section.
  • 2008–Present → 2008–present
  • The "Playoffs Information" reference should be cited from the "playoffs" column instead.

--Crzycheetah 23:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Done all but I don't get what you mean by The "Playoffs Information" reference should be cited from the "playoffs" column instead. -- K. Annoyomous24 23:32, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

• Support--Crzycheetah 23:58, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

• Object. The list says Bobby Cox has 293 losses but the reference says 292. The list says Jimy Williams has 522 games coached but the reference says 523. maclean 00:52, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

They must have miswrote it. I fixed it on the table. Annoyomous24 01:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The mantra at Wikipedia:Verifiability is "verifiability, not truth" which is why we insist on Wikipedia:Reliable sources. I understand that Baseball-Reference.com has been accepted in previous FLs as reliable, however, we will require a better source here to verify this list. maclean 02:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I actually added up the wins and losses and it adds up to what is on the table. Also, there is a second reference which backs up baseball-reference.com. The second reference is more reliable from the stats stand point. Annoyomous24 02:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It's considered WP:OR. You need to change current references #5 and 6.--Crzycheetah 07:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

CHANGED REFERENCES FOR BOBBY COX AND JIMY WILLIAMS! -- K. Annoyomous24 20:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I corrected the one inconsistency.[1] The list looks good, but I find the introduction does not demonstrate a command of the subject, specifically why/how managers of the Blue Jays changed over time. --maclean 03:59, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Killervogel5

Comments from Killervogel5

• Some of the grammar in the lead strikes me as a little stunted.
  • "The Blue Jays have never went into the playoffs since their last World Series win." should be "The Blue Jays have not gone to the playoffs since their last World Series win" or something similar.

DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24 20:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• • The first paragraph jumps around. It talks about the Blue Jays, then about what a manager is, then back to the Blue Jays again, then the last sentence goes back and touches on the first sentence again. It needs a copyedit.

Can you just tell me what to do? I don't know how to copyedit. -- K. Annoyomous24 23:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Basically, the paragraph should flow in a logical order, which it doesn't at the moment. For example, if you are going to define "manager," it should be before you state that how many managers there were. You also wrote that they are the only Canadian baseball franchise and that they are the only team outside the United States. One or the other should suffice. To be honest with you, I wouldn't use MLB in your writing either. I like that you've defined the abbreviation, but I still think that it should only be used when an abbreviation is necessary (in a reference or footnote; in an area where space is at a premium, like the key). I don't think I've ever heard a baseball manager called a field manager, though I know the term is properly correct. It's just little things that would lead me to remain neutral or oppose because criterion 1 of FLC states that the article "features professional standards of writing." If I were to look at that professionally, as an educator, I would not be pleased with the organization of the information. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on!

I don't know if I'm done the copyediting but tell me if I am. If I'm not, tell me what to do. -- K. Annoyomous24 00:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I've made the last changes I think are necessary on this point. Let me know what you think. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on!

Thanks!

• The key states that managers who are marked spent their "entire MLB coaching career with the Blue Jays". It should be managing career, unless you know for a fact and can provide references that show that they only coached for the Blue Jays as well as managing them, since baseball makes a distinction between the two terms.

DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24 20:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• Footnote B is a big run-on sentence; it needs commas. My recommendation for better prose: "Gene Tenace coached until the end of the 1991 Toronto Blue Jays season; however, he did not coach in the playoffs, as he was only a interim manager for Cito Gaston."

DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24 20:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• If you are going to use the Toronto Blue Jays navbox on the page, you need to change the link in the navbox so that it matches the title of this article.

DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24 20:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• "He is followed by Bobby Cox in both categories with 648 games and 355 wins." needs a reference.

DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24 20:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• "Cito Gaston, the current manager of the Blue Jays, managed the most games and wins of any Blue Jays manager with 1334 games and 690 wins." needs a reference.

DONE!

• Once you link a year for the first time in the list, it should not be linked again (i.e., 1989, 1991, 1997, 2002, 2004, and 2008).

If you look at all the other baseball manager-related lists, youll see that most of them also relink their years so I currently want to see what people think about that.

Every article I've worked on has had the first year linked in the section and then not again until the next section, especially here, where the years are so close together.

DONE! -- K. Annoyomous24 23:03, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Review by KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on!

I give this list my conditional support, based on the outcome of the comment below. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 00:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

• Why isn't the table sortable?

In one of my previous FLCs, someone told me that you shouldn't sort the table for sports-coach related lists.

I don't know who told you that, but I'm in an FLC right now for the Phillies managers, and I had to sort that one. The FLC criteria state that the table... "is easy to navigate, and includes—where helpful—section headings and table sort facilities." (from WP:WIAFL).

Your FLC has a different format than mine. if I sort my table, it'll look messed up. Check for yourself. -- K. Annoyomous24

I'm aware that our FLCs are certainly different, but the table is still able to be sorted. Click here for more info.

DONE! but I have a problem that I've been trying to fix all day. That problem is that I can't put the first row back to its original position. -- K. Annoyomous24 00:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)