Talk:... Not!
 | This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-02-09. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
Inaccurate statement re what's "more recent" about this construction
The article states:
Note that the use of a postfix "not" has been used in English since at least the time of Shakespeare (as in "I love thee not"); what is more recent is the addition of the pause between the original statement and the "not".
It is simply untrue that a postfix "not" -- with or without a pause -- is part of normal discourse in English, written or oral (other than its use in poetry). Yes, it appears in a few traditional contexts (e.g., when picking the petals from a daisy while synchronously chanting, "She loves me, she loves me not, . . ."). But it is not remotely common compared to the usage of the Wayne's World locution.
Furthermore, the universality of the locution: declarative statement followed by a pause, and then "Not!" goes far beyond almost all the restricted cases that occur in poetry, where the postfix "not" is always very close to the verb. For example, "I am going shopping tomorrow, come hell or high water . . . Not!" According to existing citations, nothing like this has been used in written English until the article's quote ("An Historical Parallel-- Not.") from the Princeton Tiger in 1893.
I hope the inaccurate statement in the article will be modified by its originator so as to reflect English usage more accurately.
- I'm not sure who I'm responding to, but the article doesn't say that it "is part of normal discourse in English", so I dont' know how claims which don't exist can be untrue. You point out that the first mention in written English is from 1893 as mentioned in the article and yet this contradicts the statement that the addition of the pause is more recent? I'm not sure I follow. When comparing with Shakespeare, any developments in the past 100 years could be considered recent. Also, please sign your posts/comments in the future, thank you. --Rajah 04:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The article also neglects to mention that this locution is always used jocularly.Daqu 17:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say it's *always* jocular, but yes, most of the time it is jocular. --Rajah 04:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Popularized by Wayne's World?
I seem to recall children adding "not" to the end of sentences prior to Wayne's World. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what cemented it into the culture, but I'm pretty sure it was popular prior to Michael Myers joining the cast of SNL in 1989, which would be the first time Wayne was heard nationwide (assuming the nation in question to be the U.S.). Unfortunately, I have no reliable source for this, but, if someone else does, that would be nice to have in the article. Calbaer 03:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
- Check out this: A Recent Coinage (Not!), Jesse T Sheidlower, Jonathan E. Lighter, American Speech, Vol. 68, No. 2 (Summer, 1993), pp. 213-218, doi:10.2307/455678 --Rajah 03:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
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The Simpsons
It's not exactly the same wording, but there was a Simpsons episode where Bart impersonating God said "Walk through the wall! I will remove it for you...later.". --DocumentN (talk) 03:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)