Talk:D-beat

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Punk music (inactive)

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yo i added a drum beat page that links to this page as well as to blast beats and some other crap. check it out and improve it if you like.

--Macho 2:10PM April 25, 2005

hey y'all-- i fixed a typo (it's -> its), and i changed "subtley" (not a word) assuming you meant it to be "subtly". change it if i was wrong.

disclose page.

hey, i made a page about disclose! can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclose

-Marxxxx 16:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hey all, im new to this. Macho, i was wondering if you knew anything on what c-beat is? I recently heard it through a thrash band George Harrison. They mentioned c-beat in their lyrics.

i know nothing of c-beat, sounds like a neologism someone made up to make themselves sound cool. also- i just removed the last sentence of the article, since it was clumsy and inepsy are now included in the list at the end of the article.

Macho Philipovich 21:21, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

i fixed a link, and cleaned the band section up.

-Marxxxx 16:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

god, the beat sample there is just the basic rock beat since ancient history, at least the 60's. Bands like Ramones used it heavily in the 70's.

-Pete

I made sections for the page. I also cleaned up the Brazil secion somewhat, but I think it needs more work. Will someone please do that? Also I standardized the punctuation on this page to "D-beat" (earlier there also times when it was punctuated "D-Beat" and "d-beat"). Is that an acceptable way to do it? The band list is getting long. Can we shorten it or sort it by style or region?

-Macho Philipovich 17:34, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

"D-beat" is the best way to standardize it, in my opinion Jowe27 03:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

temporary nonsense

Someone changed the first paragraph of this article to some nonsense about something else and posted a giant picture of a guy with a neck beard and a Burzum shirt. (?) I put it back to what it was before. I'm pretty new at this, so I don't know if there's some quick way to "revert" a page or report nonsense..

Reverted

Someone changed the start of the article to say that Discharge was a Punk Metal band instead of Hardcore Punk. To be honest, I don't think it was a useful change, since Hardcore Punk is a common term, yet I have been involved in this scene for years and never heard the term "Punk Metal". (Maybe "Crossover"). Besides, the Punk Metal article is apparantly slated for deletion. Dan Carkner 13:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

/* too many bands */

I think there are too many little-known bands listed on this article. It seems like every person who comes just looks at it and says "Why--they didn't mention Disclamber!" or whatever and adds one more unheard of band to the list. Dan Carkner 05:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Haha... Yeah, you're right, I haven't heard of half of the bands mentioned in the list. Maybe we should tone it down and just mention a few well-known D-beat groups. —Quirk 23:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me with other genres, that they have a separate page like "List of Screamo bands" or whatever. People can add to the list to their heart's content. I do think that it's somewhat pointless to list a little-known band that doesn't have a wikipedia article. Dan Carkner 00:40, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I created a List of D-beat bands and deleted all red links from the band list on this page. The list on this page should perhaps be even more succinct, but I'm not sure which bands to leave and which to discard. —Quirk 23:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Heh heh, you were even more harsh than I was; I took out about half of them yesterday. Suits me fine.. Dan Carkner 02:08, 24 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

i think its funny how at least half those bands have names like either dis[whatever] or [whatever]charge. i mean, i know thats one of the trade mark, but i think the band named DischargeD really took it over the line, imean changing it to past tense dosnt really mean you can use someone elses name.

Yeah, and they all try to rip-off Discharge's logo. I almost bought this patch thinking it was Discharge until I looked closer and saw it was some band called Disclose. It's kinda funny and pathetic. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 21:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Disclose pwns Discharge anyway. Makes them sound like sissies. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.5.147.43 (talk) 01:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Yeah, no offense, but I'm shocked that you are here talking about D-beat and you don't know who Disclose is. They are punk giants, and really are better than Discharge. They and Totalitar are easily the best D-beat bands ever to exist. —The preceding ~~Luke Sineath comment was added by Luke Sineath (talk • contribs) 01:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Sample?

A sound sample of D-beat would be great. It is difficult to describe how a specific beat or sound "feels" like to listen to, so a sound sample from either a song or just the beat would be a very good addition here.

I concur--87.64.21.155 10:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i dunno. it was just described to me as repetitive drum beats, with lots of hollow sounding drums, i know thats completly un-technical, but D-beat isnt a technical type of music really.

on the blast beat page there's what I believe is a MIDI sample of blast beats played at various speeds; It would indeed be a great idea to do something similar here, if for no other reason than it's a pain to try to explain what a d-beat sounds like to someone by slapping your hands on your knees. Anybody got a decent midi program?Jowe27 03:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that D-beat is wrongly tabbed on the page. Could somebody confirm if D-beat is the first beat of this Discharge song (Yes-or-No-question). Maybe I confused the beat, since it's differently named in my language.

--Kubanczyk 17:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Link doesn't work but I'm pretty sure that beat is correct (on the page). Diabolical 19:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Duh, it is really convincing... Link works, check again. Is there a chance your proxy is blocking mp3 files? --Kubanczyk 18:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Working now. It's not the first beat, it's the beat that's playing during the verse. I think the tab is correct. Diabolical 19:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then you assured me that tabbing is wrong. But for further verification I made a two quick samples

and

. I believe one of them is D-beat and one is not. I have the sources available as *.it tracks, if you want to check precise notation. We can later put right ogg in article. --Kubanczyk 00:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first bit of the first sample is D-beat but the latter half is unnecessary and potentially confusing. Diabolical 02:11, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. But now you got me confused! --Kubanczyk 07:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The d-beat is wrongly tabbed. I can't play those .ogg files to make sure about that, but--typically when playing D-beat, you hit the ride or a crash rather than the hi-hat. The second issue is that you only hit the ride/crash when you hit the bass drum. so you don't hit it on all 4 beats, see? that's very important, because it gives the beat a different feel.~~Luke Sineath

Great, thanks for your opinion. This claims to be encyclopedic article and up to this point you are alone in your suggestion about cymbal usage. It would be great if you provide some evidence, that your way is the standard way. I play .ogg with winamp version 2.9. --Kubanczyk 08:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised at your attitude. The proper tabulation should be clear to anyone who listens to this sort of music, especially since the drum beat never really changes.Discharge Realities of War Here's some evidence for you. And another [1]. And another [2] An example from Dislose [3] Anti-Cimex live[4], where you can clearly see the drummer playing d-beat at around 3 minutes or so. The last bit is on the drummer the whole time. Here's a Disclose vid, not a lot of focus on the drummer, but enough that you can see that he's hitting a crash, not the hi-hat [5]. Here [6] is an excellent video of Cluster Bomb Unit. Nice practice video of Mob 47 [7]. Massakro [8]. This drummer is hitting the hi-hat, but still in the pattern which I described above. Given that someone else on this discussion page didn't know who Disclose was, it doesn't suprise me that no-one has disputed the tabulation. Really there shouldn't be any dispute, and I've given you plenty of evidence on this point, which I don't think was necessary if you listen to this kind of music. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Luke Sineath (talk • contribs) 05:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

You're right about the timing. --Kubanczyk 08:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Luke Sineath is right. D-beat is played with crash or ride cymbal on bassdrum only. I have played in different d-beat bands for close to fifteen years and have never played it in another way. Neither have I ever heard anyone play it different.

What a mess

This article really needs to be re-written and re-formatted, when i first came across it, it had zero wiki links and no proper formatting. I tried to fix some of the worst mistakes, but there's still a ton that needs to be re-worked to bring it up to wikipedia standards. Jesse K. 23:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, it still looks much worse than it did before after several edits.. How is it an improvement to move the intro to the second paragraph and leave a weird tiny, blank title bar? I guess it's a work in progress, but.. Dan Carkner 14:49, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the references?

I came from DISCHARGE page and I feel there were a tiny reference/source for d-beat (only the Buzzcocks song). Then I came here and seems that it was made by the same person. There should be a better research about this, 'cos I see that the first direct reference came from Iggy Pop song "I got a right" (TV Eye 1977 EP) which is a 2:20 minute fast-paced d-beat hell of a song. Also there is "The witch" from The Sonics, and if you dig it deep you'll get pieces from Animals singles, Beach Boys and even The Monkees! I could write it by myself but my english is not that good (but I can help on it). So I think this text deserves at least some paragraphs regarding the references and history of this nature of beat. thank you, Bruno. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.181.86.15 (talk) 20:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Origins?

Can anyone justify the 'cultural origins' being north america? I'm not entirely sure how far back Wikipedia refer to by 'origins', but surely the most notable cultural origin would be discharge? And therefore UK.

I agree, UK and scandinavia. Dan Carkner 22:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I get it, that is just a generic hardcorepunk box, it doesn't refer to this specific style.Dan Carkner 03:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

American bands??

Most of those bands mentioned had zero influence and did not bring "D-beat" to the US Punk scene. That whole sectin needs to be re-written. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.254.17.155 (talk) 00:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

American bands infludenced by Discharge and that were at least somewhat popular...

Crucifix, The Iconoclast, Battalion of Saints were early 80's discharge influenced bands. Also Bad Brains were playing so-called D-beat thrash since 1979 or 80, and the Misfits were discharge contemporaries who played thrash as well. The article mentions 1984 and the influence of some obscure band (who's name escapes me)?? by that time it had already peaked and was fading fast. Suicidal Tendencies played "D-beat" as did Bad Religion and the list of influential bands goes on... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.254.17.155 (talk) 00:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Brains have no relationship to Discharge, and I don't think they play D-beats. Not sure if Misfits had any Discharge influence, but they're definitely not D-beat either. Bad Religion? Are you kidding me? Now Crucifix, that's right. Aryder779 (talk) 17:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Battalion of Saints were not D-beat. They were influenced by UK Punk, but the D-beat influence was never there or at least a major part of their sound until Battalion of Saints A.D. which did feature ex members of Discharge. The Misfits played Ramones' style stripped down rock 'n roll with a lot of 50s influences until Earth AD, which although may have influenced the thrash metal scene, was rooted in hardcore punk and not Discharge-Beat. Suicidal Tendencies' first album was hardcore punk, not of the D-beat variety and subsequent albums employed thrash metal, funk, and hardcore influences...They were an extreme case in "crossover"...Bad Religion never played D-beat. On Crucifix, I can hear an influence and I have never listened to The Iconoclast before...Now, if you're referring to the drumming style, not the genre, then you may have something, because I'm sure that every punk, hardcore, metal, etc. band has at least one song where a D-beat is utilized at least momentarily. I'm also sure that most wouldn't be able to tell.

-ZAch AtTacK-—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.15.146.252 (talk) 18:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This section has been controversial for a while now:

"Negative Approach was largely responsible for introducing Discharge's influence to American hardcore punk. However, the earliest documented pure D-beat bands in the United States were from California: Diatribe, from San Diego, and Against, from Los Angeles. Firmly entrenched in the US hardcore scene, Diatribe formed in 1984 and recorded the Aftermath EP in January 1985. The EP was characterized by a raw early Discharge musical style with lyrics focusing on the horrors of nuclear holocaust and war. Bands such as Crucifix (San Francisco) and Final Conflict (Long Beach) were also heavily influenced by Discharge."

I added the sentence about Negative Approach, and I'm beginning to reconsider. For one thing, the whole paragraph is original research. There's no question that Negative Approach was influenced by Discharge; much of their sound comes from melding street punk with American hardcore (they also covered a Blitz song). But they're definitely not a "D-beat" group in the sense that the Varukers or Anti-Cimex are. These groups Diatribe and Against are quite obscure, and I can't find any evidence made for the claims made in this paragraph. Final Conflict I'm familiar with, and Crucifix are pretty well-known. They're already mentioned in the opening paragraph. I think this paragraph should be deleted, as per WP:NOR and WP:UNDUE. Aryder779 (talk) 14:02, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Street punk merger

I've suggested that this article be merged with street punk. I find that Wikipedia articles tend to thrive when they amass a great deal of information, and not do very well when they split up into lots of tiny sub-pages. I think the page would make more sense, contextually, as part of the street punk article. Any thoughts? Aryder779 (talk) 14:12, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What proof do you have that d-beat is related to Street punk? It's seems to me that it is has much mare in common whith hardcore and anarcho punk. 137.186.62.69 (talk) 23:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Read Ian Glasper's Burning Britain, along with The Day the Country Died; these are the two main sources on UK punk. Discharge and its immediate followers (the Varukers) very much emerged from the street punk scene, not from anarcho-punk (Crass) or hardcore punk. They're discussed in Burning Britain (on street punk), not in The Day the Country Died (on anarcho-punk). D-beat has become much more associated with anarcho-punk and crust over the past decade because of groups like His Hero Is Gone, but that's a development, not an origin. The same is true of Swedish groups like Anti-Cimex -- they're much closer to The Exploited and GBH than to Crass or Conflict. This is supported by the Swedish punk encyclopedia. Aryder779 (talk) 15:06, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The "emergence" of something from something hardly is good enough for those things to be re-merged together. The novel emerged from the medieval romance, but I think we can handle these things being treated separately. Besides, street punk bands tend NOT to play a d-beat. That should be evidence enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.202.227 (talk) 04:17, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong no from me. D-Beat is more than notable on it's own, and while it grew out of the UK82 scene, it is not a form of street punk, at least not these days. Again, it's far closer to crust or anarcho than street punk, especially today. And again, it should just be on it's own. Ungovernable Force^{Poll: Which religious text should I read?} 07:58, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese D-beat?

"Japanese D-beat bands are usually notable for either faithful emulation of the European Discharge-influenced punk aesthetic (something at which bands like Disclose excel), or for their technically advanced playing, employing a D-beat in the context of a more transcendent and original whole. Bands such as Bastard and Deathside are notable for their strong sense of melody and their subtly metallic playing, although they are not true D-beat bands."

I just removed this section, because it's in particularly egregrious contradiction with WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. I'm intrigued by Japanese D-beat and I'm familiar with Disclose (still mentioned in the article, in the opening paragraph), but I've never heard of Bastard or Deathside and my research turned up nothing on them. It's particularly cryptic that this paragraph asserts that "they are not true D-beat bands". Without further elaboration, its not clear what true D-beat is or why these groups are discussed here. Aryder779 (talk) 19:25, 26 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]