Talk:GCE Advanced Level in the United Kingdom

Introduction

Just made a fairly major edit to the first few introduction paragraphs as the previous section was a bit all over the place. I've tried to group related information, remove repeated info, and improve the flow and language. The last paragraph could probably do with some work as well. It's an improvement on the previous intro but feel free to comment/discuss/edit. Speedy McG (talk) 18:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Higher standards?

I'm new here but this doesn't seem very objective: "However, it is significantly harder to achieve a good grade in the Hong Kong A-levels(HKAL) than in the British GCE A-levels, as the bar is raised for the Asian students due to their higher standards." Anyone know? Valicore (talk) 04:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

University Admissions

What sorts of scores do various programs in various universities require? Presumably the best require a bunch of 'A's. Will any good universities take students with 'E's, etc.? As someone unfamiliar with the UK secondary education system, I think it would be important to include some sort of guidance on this. 82.111.242.154 (talk) 22:01, 17 May 2008 (UTC) R.E.D.

Er, no. In the old days you could get into Cambridge or Oxford with two E's at A-Level, that is the minimal requirement, honest. 86.134.237.57 (talk) 23:02, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Foreign Countries

Since the A level is common throughout the Commonwealth, shouldn't they receive something approaching as thorough a treatment as the type awarded in England, Wales and NI? What about noting that many students all over the world, especially in private education, actually take the British A-level? --VivaEmilyDavies 23:56, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yup... but often countries like Singapore, although doing the 'A' Levels offered by UCLES, have different syllabus. The Ministry of Education of Sinagpore has more control over the content, while Cambridge sets and marks the papers. Wonder if anyone can wrap that up nicely... Richardlu yy 15:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

University Offers

"While many universities do not consider an A-level in General Studies to be a stand-alone subject (and thus is not accepted as part of an offer), it may affect the offer which a student receives exclusive of it. For example, a student of maths, physics and computing might receive an offer "BBC" for a physics degree, whereas one also taking General Studies would receive "BCC". That said, if the student gets a C in General Studies, and B-C-D in their other three, regardless of the second C, they would have failed to reach the conditions of their offer, and thus lose that place." - is there any evidence for this? It is not part of the stated policies of any university that I am aware of. And it does need some rephrasing - it isn't that most universities don't accept that it's a valid A-level subject, just that it's not the type of qualification that they want to base offers on. Many would encourage students to take it anyway for knowledge-broadening purposes. I have heard anecdotes of GS being taken into account at the Clearing stage of university admissions. --VivaEmilyDavies 23:49, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I feel that this section has become too unwieldly. As the subject is A level, not university admission, perhaps it should be spun off onto a more relevant or new article? There seems to be an assumption that A levels are only taken as a means to entry to a under graduate university course, which is clearly false. Markb 09:48, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Most UK universities nowadays are commercial businesses and would take on anyone able to pay. So the best thing to do if you drop a grade or two or three in the results is to phone the university's admission office and see whether they'll still take you. The chances are, short of subject like Medicine and Dentistry, they will. 86.134.237.57 (talk) 23:08, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

AS and A2

I have removed links to AS and A2 levels (pages which don't currently exist). The reason is to discourage people creating pages on these topics as I don't think they could lead to anything more than dictionary definitions. There isn't much that can be said about either that wouldn't appear on this A-levels page. Angela 16:40, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

In that case, you should make AS-level and A2-level redirects to A-level. Otherwise, people have no impediment to creating new pages on those topics. Pages that talk about AS-levels or A2-levels specifically should link to whichever one they are talking about (we don't know where the content on AS-levels and A2-levels will end up eventually), but the redirect will take them to this article. I'll make the redirects now. -- Oliver P. 20:02, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

S level

I've just added a "see also" link to Advanced Extension Award, and it made me wonder what happened to "S levels" which if (I remember correctly) were properly called Advanced Level GCE Special Papers. I was aware of them existing in 1986 when I did my A levels, though nobody at my bog-standard comp did them. I had a quick google and it seems from UCAS's uk qualifications 05 (PDF; 800k; see page 86 of the PDF, but numbered 85 at the bottom) that they did exist until the introduction of AEAs in 2002. --rbrwr^± 20:05, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

they still existed as least as late as 1999 when I did them but they we not widely taken

They still exist in Singapore, but only until November 2006 (I am taking Chem and Bio this week :( ). After that the 'A' Level system in Singapore will be revamped. I wonder how come there's no history on it and I just see the AEA popping up from nowhere? Richardlu yy 15:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I remember they were almost a requirement for Oxbridge candidates. There were 3 grades in the 'older' days, Distinction, Merit and Credit, or 1, 2 and 3. Credit was then dropped, so the 'S' paper grades were Distinction (1) and Merit (2). 86.134.236.70 (talk) 00:52, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Subjects

This pages has been moved to WIKIBOOKS, where you can add to it if you want see Wikibooks:A_level, good luck.

http://www.jcgq.org.uk/Publications_and_Common_Docs/Alpha_GCE.pdf is a full list of GCE subjects, for anyone that is interested. --rbrwr^± 22:58, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

A general moan at a-levels

"A third view is that, as schools come under increasing pressure to improve their examination results, pupils are being coached to pass specific examinations, at the expense of a general understanding of their subjects. "

Bloody right. As a student just finishing my alevels now it infuriates me how little some of my class mates actually understand the subject yet manage to get the top grades. On the other hand there as some other guys with a clear talent for a subject and much more practical ability, yet they always seem to miss top marks. Doesnt seem very fair to me. Life isnt about passing exams its about putting your best into practical tasks with teams to achieve the best possible solution. Arg

 Absolutely right! 92.21.85.57 (talk) 15:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Harry Potter reference

A reference to Harry Potter's Wizarding World examinations doesn't really have anything to do with this topic, does it? -x42bn6 08:01, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Since nobody has protested, I'll go ahead and remove the reference to Harry Potter. -x42bn6 08:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

US/UK education?

The paragraph appended to the end of this page...

Breadth of knowledge has already been satisfied, following 10-years of education (6-16 years of age), the taking of, on average 7 GCSE's (6-8). By this time, people should know how to read and write, have extensively completed english language and literature and other subjects. A-levels are a specialization (hence the depth) in preparation for a further specialization at University. Unlike the US University system, that repeats 70+% of prior learning from high school, of which, a major that accounts for only 40-50% of the degree, the remainder 50-60% has absolutely nothing to do with the degree title and is just a repeat of high school, the UK degree is 4-years at 90-100% of in depth education in the specialization. This is more like the US masters.

...seems a bit inflammatory, isn't sourced (70%+?), and doesn't necessarily add anything to the page. A bit about (or a link to) the GCSE's and breadth might be okay, but the paragraph as a whole is inappropriate IMO. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

--Zamfi 21:11, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Is also self defeating, 7 GSCEs is a joke in itself.

Anonymisation?

I have heard that people who correct and grade the A-Levels don't know the names of the pupils so bias regarding ethnicity or gender can't influence the grading. As I'm not sure whether this is true or not, I did not change the entry, so please do so if you know this to be correct.

Candidates write their names on the scripts which the examiners see, so this is not possible. However, systems for marking scanned scripts electronically are in development (/practice?) for some subjects.

University Applications

Most of the information in this paragraph, whilst well written and accurate, doesn't seem to be relevant to the subject of the article. Any reason not to remove/brutally trim it? 86.137.104.235 17:15, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

And Another Thing...

"or multiple Sciences and Mathematics courses, which can have overlapping content" Can anyone find a reference for this? I cannot speak certainly for science A-levels, but certainly my experience of learning two mathematics A-levels is that the content does not overlap significantly (althought the second a-level does build on the first one) and that doing the second a-level takes at least the same amount of work as the first if not more. 86.137.104.235 17:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that your comment about it building on the content is fair - it's not the same work repeated, but twice as much work at the same level if you do Maths and Further Maths for example. There is a choice of 17 modules, you would take 3 to do an AS level and another three to complete the A Level. In Further Maths you do another three or six.

There are some cases in which they do overlap, and not just science and mathematics. Also, I believe that the article is referring to an overlap in mathematics and science rather than Maths and Further Maths (which, really, wouldn't, by definition, overlap) - I know that physics and mechanics overlap (although as I am doing a statistics module and every core science except physics ... take with a pinch of salt) - and I'd imagine there're other overlaps in other subjects. English Literature would likely overlap with Drama (I only do English Lit, so I can't say for sure), Lit and Lang would probably overlap, biology and geography - maybe, I know that IT overlaps with Law (again, I don't do law, but as there's a section of the IT course dedicated specifically to laws on computers...) - in short, there are a lot of overlaps. Not that that's a particularly bad thing. LupusCanis 17:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I am dubious about the relevance of the whole overlapping / fluent langusages bit, which might equally apply to any exams system and not just A-levels. However I have confined myself to making it into a separate sentence to the 5 A-levels issue, which simply sounded like sour grapes against people taking 5 or more A-levels. Even if it is true that subjects may overlap, or that people may take an A-level in a language they are already fluent in, it will be as true for someone taking 2 A-levels as for 5 (or even for one A-level in the case of languages). Samatarou 04:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I will just comment here too that I deleted a whole para which did not discuss A-levels at all, but rather summarised (wrongly) a referenced BBC article on plans to extend compulsory education to age 18 and went on to refer to how a specific college was planning to deal with these plans. It appeared to be an ad hoc insertion which broke the natural flow between the paragraph 2 (re. UK) and the subsequent para (re. Overseas) which clearly belong together. Samatarou 04:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

'A' Level Examinations Boards

Article looks like an advertisement for CIE examinations, which is the smallest of the UK 'A' level examination boards. Added references to the other boards with links

List of A-Levels

Is this section really required? , as this is ever changing, and thus has the potential to be difficult to keep up to date. Also, where is the source for this?

• And also, you may want to mention that SPU (Sci. for Public Understanding), European Studies, and Citizenship are only availiable to AS-Level (at least at the AQA board [1])

DannyM 19:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Done that. Skinnyweed 23:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

class schedules

About how many hours per week would a student taking 4-3 AS or AS course have of classtime? Is there just one class for each subject or is each subject broken into several classes? (Alphaboi867 06:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC))

I have 4 and a half hours a week for each subject (I take four AS). 3 an hour long, with one lesson being half an hour more. That makes 18 hours a week, plus 2 more for IT/General Studies and also for Tutorial. This is near enough standard across the country I believe. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/. 13:56, 29 May 2006 (UTC).

Yes, it is, I do the same. 4.5hrs per lesson (in 2x1hr, 1x1hr15, 1x1h30 (reduced to 1hr15 except in cases of practical lab sessions). Plus 1hr15 worth of tutorials (1x45mins, 1x30mins). Just proof that it's standard, as for A2 it changes I think, think you get one double block per subject/per week. So in principal ive got 18hrs of lessons, with the possibility of an extra 15mins per block (College's name for periods), 1hr15 of tutor (though it rarely comes to that) and 14hrs15mins free blocks. Some of my circle of friends also do another 4hr30 per block, losing 4hrs45 of free blocks. Just from my prespective. DannyM 20:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Original research/unreferenced

It has no references whatsoever, seems like somebody just decided to write about their view on A-levels. Skinnyweed 19:24, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Pages on individual A Levels

Should there be pages on individual A Levels? Or is that not encyclopedish enough?

Plenty of things here aren't encyclopedic. It wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion. Skinnyweed 14:37, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits. June 2006

I have made a Demographics section that has results and things like that, it's quite a mess of statistics. I've also changed the name of "questions of academic rigour" to "criticisms and reformation" as it covers it better, and added some stuff there. Skinnyweed 15:45, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the subjects list, every single subject must have a source to an exam board otherwise it may be removed. I have started this process by adding the AQA Specifications document which sources the most common ones. Skinnyweed 22:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

This article needs a thorough copyedit, for instance, the first paragraph says qualification, usually taken by students, only a few words later it repeats itself with qualification taken by students. Skinnyweed 22:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've looked at all the major exam boards but there's still a few unsourced which probably won't get done by me. Skinnyweed 22:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

CIE was a major coup and added loads of bizarre ones like Tamil. Skinnyweed 23:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Political Mistake!!

What does the following mean?? in some Commonwealth countries, including ... Hong Kong

Everybody knows HK is a part of China and it's not a country. --Billc.cn 08:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

But it does still have the influence of the Commonwealth in it's culture, as shown by the fact that HK has A-Levels. I agree it should be reworded and made more clear. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/ 10:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC).

NPOV - "easy subjects"

I have removed references to named "easy" subjects as this is clearly NPOV. Although there are clearly some soft subjects out there it is NPOV to name them.

Who is to say whether media is more challenging than art or vice-versa?195.93.21.4 16:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup tag

This article requires some refractoring, some graphs (for the grades like on the GCSE article), and just general cleanup, because it's not very clear. Hence, added the tag. (Bjorn Tipling 18:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC))

Gorseinnon College

Could someone provide a citation for the alleged fact that Gorseinnon College is one of the highest ranked colleges in the UK. I live in the local area and have compared their results with other local sixth forms and colleges and they do not seem to excel above the rest. The part of the text that should remain is the statement that some sixth forms are expanding for compulsory A-levels in the near future.

What does college mean in this context?

To a German-American such as myself the following sentence is quite confusing: in the final two years of secondary education (commonly called the Sixth Form), or in College (not to be mistaken with the "college" term some countries such as the United States use for University)" - So what does college mean in this context? As I understand it this exam is taken by students in a secondary institution -are such institutions refered to as colleges in the UK? Signature^brendel 22:10, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

It goes 11-16 years = secondary, 16-18 years = college, 18+ years = university. Sometimes the college part carries on at the same school as the secondary part, this is when college is commonly called sixth form. -- Boothman _/tɔːk/ 22:18, 18 June 2007 (UTC).

Yes, most schools that have a sixth form continue to call it the sixth form. However, there are some sixth form-only colleges. and further education colleges that allow study of A levels and voactional courses. Higher education (meaning higher than A levels) in the UK takes place almost entirely at institutions called universities these days since all the polytechnics were rename about 15 years ago.

Most British degrees are still three years long though many are of four years nowadays - and many of those are called MEng or MPhys but are not actually masters degrees.Cliff 17:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Would you care to name an MEng that is not a masters? Skittle (talk) 22:46, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

They are masters - they are called an undergraduate masters degree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.97.11 (talk) 23:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

International Equivalence

How do A-levels compare with school leaving exams in other countries? It used to be said that they were at the level of second or third year studies at an American undergraduate college, so do they correspond to an Associate degree and allow a student to skip a year or two? It used to be (and perhaps still is) possible for A-level holders to go straight into second year courses for four-year degrees at the Scottish universities, and cut out the first year entirely if they had the right combination of passes. On the other hand, the French baccalaureate sounds more rigorous. NRPanikker 19:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

The 'Scottish question' remains true. Often if a student gets low grades they enter the first year (of a 4 year Bsc), if not they enter the second year. 82.17.136.199 (talk) 23:30, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you should remember A Levels are much more in-depth than many overseas qualifications. The content of second year A Levels is equivalent to the first year of university in many countries. I don't think the French system is more rigorous, in particular the French seem to spend a very long time at school to complete their qualifications. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.97.11 (talk) 23:25, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

A-Levels are not that hard, but the UK curriculum is such that students only take 3 or perhaps 4 subjects, whereas in many non-UK university courses the first and second year could offer a much wider combination of subjects and courses. When I did A-Levels, my fee-paying school refused to allow me to take more than 3 subjects, even when the time-table permitted, as it was their view that the school fee only covered 3 subjects. So I just bought a text-book and studied on my own for my 4th subject in just one year, took the exam, and passed with a good grade, thus proving that A-Levels are not that difficult. I am told that in Singapore, students did 5 A-level subjects as a rule. 86.136.61.102 (talk) 02:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Results day

Should there be some mention of the typical date on which students get their results?, at the moment i cant see it in the article. 92.21.85.57 (talk) 15:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Commonwealth

Gibraltar is not a Commonwealth Country. It's a British Overseas Territory I have corrected the sentence to reflect the facts.

AP exams

I don't have enough knowledge to say this with certainty, but I'm not sure how good the correlation is between A-level, as described here, and AP exams: AP exams are voluntary tests, that, so far as I know, are not required for admission by any college in the U.S. They are taken during high school, not separately, and are designed to give well-qualified students—as its name suggests—placement out of introductory classes. [For example, I took AP Chemistry in high school, and was thus able to skip the normal introductory chemistry course, and go straight to organic chemistry.] Samer (talk) 03:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The statement in the article is a comparison to the end result of taking APs or A-Levels. Considering APs as "voluntary" doesn't help understand the nature of APs or A-Levels. A-Levels are not compulsory in the UK either and they are also taken during high school. Seems a fair statement to me. --Candy (talk) 07:04, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I should have been clearer about my issue here: the article goes on to say:

While an A-level is a qualification in its own right, A-levels are often the prerequisite for university-level study as well,[7] making them a de facto university entrance examination, though some universities also require applicants to take separate entrance examinations and the International Baccalaureate and European Baccalaureate are also accepted.

That is the part that makes me question how close they are; no school in the U.S. requires AP exams (or the IB or EB) for admission. Samer (talk) 15:51, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Then the answer is simple. In the vast, vast majority of cases, to get into a British University for a 3 year honours degree course you need A levels, APs or IB Diploma or equivalent. Does that help? --Candy (talk) 17:18, 30 March 2009 (UTC)