Talk:Friesland

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Frisia (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Frisia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.FrisiaWikipedia:WikiProject FrisiaTemplate:WikiProject FrisiaFrisia articles

Bold textNO MENTION of the fact that this province flies the oldest flag still in use today. This is a varifiable claim and an improtant one

good article! 0-0 -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 16:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The dutch article on this province is much better than the english version. Is there any way to translate it?

Either find someone who speaks Dutch or try AltaVista. --Khoikhoi 02:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll spend some time picking out pieces from the Dutch that are clearly missing in the English. Not sure an out and out translation is worth the time time though jdevries 00:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Friesland was the first to acknowledge the independence of America's Thirteen Colonies from the United Kingdom.

I'm Frisian but have never heard of this, does anyone know the deal about it? -- I for one think its bull. Fact is that The Netherlands(in there then current form), Acknowleged it as a whole state.

And thats not the only bull in the article.

My 2 cents

Not bull, John Adams went to the Netherlands just after the young nation was born. It was the Frisian province (Oostergo?) which was the first of the dutch provinces to vote in favour of acknowledging the United States. A Duck 22:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Fryslân

I suggest moving the article to Fryslân, since that is the official name of the province. Perhaps Friesland could replace Friesland (disambiguation). --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 19:20, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not agreed. Friesland is a province of the Netherlands (just as 11 other provinces) and all of them go by their official Dutch names.--Willem Huberts 21:34, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not true. Check the official website of the Province of Fryslân: www.fryslan.nl where the name of the province is Fryslân, both in Frisian and in Dutch. Also, the Dutch Ministry of the Interior and Kingdom Relations www.min.bzk.nl refers to the province as Fryslân. --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 10:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The official website of the Province of Fryslân says Fryslân because they have a choice: Friesland or Fryslân. Being the official site of the province, they understandably opt for Fryslân. That's their reasoning. Being a province of The Netherlands, Friesland is the official Dutch name.--Willem Huberts 17:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neither the Dutch name, not the Frisian name, nor the official name matters. The article should be at the most commonly used name in English, which is Friesland. Eugène van der Pijll 17:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly nonsense, the province is clearly called Fryslân at the moment in all communication by the province and dutch governmental organisations. Friesland is used colooquially, which should be mentioned in the article and a redirect should be in place Romanista (talk) 13:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We have to use the name for it in English, because this is the English wikipedia. So that means it stays as Friesland. Names like Fryslân can be a redirect. There is no such character as â in the alphabet as used in English. This also means that the name Fryslân cannot be typed by the great majority of English speaking computer users. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Friesland is neither the official name of the province in the province itself, nor is it the official name in the Netherlands - the Dutch government and media refer to the province as Fryslân. There is no such thing as "the name for it in English"; English doesn't have an exonym for Fryslân. The argument about 'â' not being part of the English alphabet is of no value either, the English Wikipedia is full of articles with names that contain non-English characters (e.g. A Coruña). This article bears a colloquial name, instead of the official name which an encyclopedia ought to use. Therefore, move to Fryslân. - TaalVerbeteraar (talk) 11:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You use the English name for places, not the native name. Hence Japan not Nihon. It applies to Dutch provinces too- its South Holland, not Zuid Holland. It just so happens the Dutch name for Friesland is the same as the English name. --Him and a dog 19:57, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Except... Friesland isn't the English name for the province, nor is Fryslân. English doesn't have a name for it. Therefore it makes more sense to use the original (Frisian) name on the English Wikipedia than using the Dutch translation for it. This is already happening with Frisian places: we have Ryptsjerk not Rijperkerk, Reahûs not Roodhuis, Blije not Blija (Dutch names in italics). - TaalVerbeteraar (talk) 19:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Frisia clearly is an English exonym for Friesland / Fryslân. That the word also has a wider meaning is irrelevant. Both other words have wider meanings too. What is official is also irrelevant. I suppose Friesland could be used as well if it is a commonly used name in English for the province. I doubt very much however that "Fryslân" is an English exonym or even en English word. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:38, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

put Friesland <-> Frisia together

Since this is the English Wiki, why won't we put Frisia and Friesland together, or so??

The article should be named Frisia, because that is the right (English) exonym for the Dutch word Friesland. NOW, we have 2 almost similar articles. Idea??

Fc turner 18:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ow, by the way: the official Dutch name of the province changed in 1997 to Fryslân. Friesland is still what we use/speak on the street as Dutch people, but officially it was changed. So I figured that the article Friesland should become a REDIRECT to Frisia. And that also goes for the article Fryslân.

Anyone aware that we momentally have 3 articles about one piece of land?? It really has three names: Fryslân (endonym, Frisian language), Friesland (exonym, Dutch language), Frisia (exonym, English language). We should use the English word, for this IS the English Wiki. I think those are really good arguments...

Explanation; Frisia is the historical region of greater Frisia. Friesland (official international recognized name Fryslân) is an article about the dutch province Friesland. East-Frisia and Groningen were also a part of Frisia. But Frisia and the seperate regions are not the same. Friesland is only a part of the old Frisia, so Friesland and Frisia are two completely seperate articles.

Kind regards, Kening Aldgilles 10 apr 07, 20:27 CET

Friesland is not the same as Frisia, as correctly stated above by Kening Aldgilles. So putting the two together is not an option. Concerning Friesland/Fryslân, I would suggest making Fryslân the main entry and Friesland a redirect, since Fryslân is the official name of the Dutch province and has been since 1997. Hope this helps. WanderingSpirit 20:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch nationalists warning

Please do not merge the article Friesland into Frisia, it is not the same. We cannot do this, because the history of Frisia is not the history of the province Friesland. Then you can merge the article into East-Frisia or Groningen as well. So if its only the history of the province Friesland (according Dutch nationalists), this would be discrimination towards other former Frisian regions. I haven't seen one good reason so far for merging this article into the province Friesland, so please reject this proposal.

Name Fryslân

Eugène van der Pijll wrote that the official name doesn't matter, excuse me?! The official name is Fryslân, that is the common name used in the European Union, every Dutch ministry (including forreign affairs!) and the province itself. The moderators are the best persons to decide which name is correct. Should be the regionally, nationally and international recognized names, Fryslân.

I recognize this discussion from the Greek nationalists concerning the Macedonian articles.

Kind regards, Kening Aldgilles 10 apr 07, 20:22 CET

Indeed, therefore I repeat my request to move to Fryslân. Fryslân boppe! --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 19:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fryslan boppe, benne; i've moved it... -)-(-H- (|-|) -O-)-(- 05:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fryslân is official, but it's not an English (or a Dutch) word. Not every Dutch ministery uses Fryslân b.t.w. because it's simply not a Dutch word and can be translated. Only the Interior ministery uses it. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 18:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Frisians project?

How about a Wikiproject dedicated to the Frisians? --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 07:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If this project will in fact start, I for one am willing to participate. A Duck 22:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does such a project excist? May I join it? Please, give me some directions. -The Bold Guy- 15:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps there should be a sub-project of the Netherlands project. I would suggest not just Frisians, but Friesland as well would be in the project. Graeme Bartlett 22:17, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that sounds okay. But not as a sub-Project. In a world, were even tv and book-series get there own projects, I think the Frisian people deserve a project of their own! Is there something of project allready, then please give me some directions! -The Bold Guy- 17:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It will be a matter of how many people want to work on it. I see you are keen, perhaps others can add their interest to this thread. However there is still nothing stopping work on Frisian articles without a project. If you get more than 4 volunteers I could try to make a new project. I have not done this before, but I am trying out all different kinds of wikiactivities. Currently I am concentrating on Geology though, there are too many worthwhile projects around. Graeme Bartlett 23:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno if I can get that many interested people to volunteer, but what I can recommend you to do, is to watch the category:Frisian wikipedians (from those who carry the template, and ask them. When you'd do that, I think you can get enough volunteers to run the project, don't you agree? -The Bold Guy- (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, except that there are only 4 with that template on their user page, perhaps you should encourage it's use, more useful that category:ancestors of Pier Gerlofs Donia. Perhaps you could find those with surnames that are Fiesian -stra and -sma type names, de Vries etc. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:40, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Frisian and Low Saxon

This article is still in a very poor state, as it focuses almost exclusively on the Frisian language, as though nothing else ever happened in the province. Notwithstanding, I should like to add to the section comparing English and Frisian that Frisian syntax and vocabulary bear a closer resemblance to the neighbouring Low Saxon dialects of the Netherlands than to Standard Dutch. I've noticed this through personal observation, but I'll only add this info when I find a source confirming it. Ni'jluuseger (talk) 00:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Saxon and Frisian were obviously closely related back in the Middle Ages, both of them being regarded as Lower German. But that goes for Lower Franconian (the more direct ancestor of Dutch) as well. The Groningan variety of Saxon has a potent Frisian substrate, because in the Groningen countryside Frisian was spoken until about the 15th century. The same goes for East-Frisia in Germany. In a way that substrate could also be present (in a lesser strong form) in the dialect of Holland, where a form of Lower-Franconian took over from a more sparse population of Frisian speakers centuries earlier. I doubt that the "non Groningan" varieties of Lower-Saxon resemble Frisian as much as Groningan does. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 20:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a history section

This article needs a history section.

'Hearts' on the flag?

Does any one know what the 'heart' shapes on the flag are, or represent? They seem quite an unusual feature. They also appear on the inter-Friesian flag, in the this article: West_Friesland_(region)