Talk:List of AMD graphics processing units

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CPUs

What happened to the pages Comparison of Intel Central Processing Units and Comparison of AMD Central Processing Units? I can't believe that I have to use answers.com instead of WP.

They were deleted in favor the more detailed lists that are now seperate into processor categories we now have "List of Pentium 4 Processors, List of Pentium D Processors etc etc.

PEG v. PCIe x16

It is my understanding that PEG is proper usage for the PCI Express Graphics slot (functionally different than simply a PCIe x16 slot). Is this accurate? If so, should this be changed in this article, and all other articles (nVidia GPU's etc.)? Sahrin 16:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

--
"PEG" is an improper term, "PCI Express x16" is simple a standard PCI Express Bus with 16 lanes; it can be used for any peripheral. High-end Graphic Cards can take advantage of it's bandwidth and architecture, more than any other device.--Satsuki 18:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PCI-SIG website uses PEG to denote graphics usage of an x8 slot used for graphics processors. The reason I propose using PEG in the place of PCIe x16 is because the slot is physically an x8 slot and electrically an anything between x1 and x16 (someday x32) slot. PEG clarifies it as a PCIe x8 slot for graphics. If anything, using your definition we should use PCIe x8, but I think that is also a misnomer (as typically the end user envisions it as an x16 slot, because electrically that is what it is). Again, I suggest we change PCIe x16 references to PEG for clarity or robustness of the information. Sahrin 01:33, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- PEG Link Mode, read. I think using "PEG" would confuse everyone. "PEG Link Mode" is a term used for overclocking the video card on specific mobos, which isn't standard. "PCI-e x16" is the correct and standard term for the interface these cards use.

- - PCI-e x16 is the correct name for a physical and electrical x16 slot, which not all of these graphics cards use (either on the "slot" end or on the "connector" end). Saying PCIe x16 is akin to saying "USB 2.0" for every single USB device in existence - when in fact, not every USB device is 2.0 standard. PEG describes graphic use of PCI-Express, PCIe x16 describes a standard for a connector - for any purpose. Not saying I disagree we should use PCIe x16, but I think your justification is invalid. Sahrin 13:40, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Radeon 9500 non-pro

Radeon 9500 non-pro in its early life had 256 bit memory bus as it has been built on the same PCB that radeon 9700 was build. It has been posible to enable the extended memory bus with some moding and driver editing.

DirextX Support

Why my ATI 9000 64mb supports directx 9.0, while in the article it isn't so? (unsigned comment by User:87.0.236.9)

It supports DirectX 9.0 compatibility, but its feature-set matches only those from Direct3D 8.1. Read the "DirectX version note" section --200.148.44.7 01:56, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ATI Radeon X1400

Why is there no Radeon X1400 on the list? Where does it fit in?

I don't think there is a Radeon X1400, other than the Mobility. Decembermouse (talk) 05:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

TMUs

Every single card on the page is listed as only having one TMU but many if not all of the cards have more than one TMU. Somebody needs to fix this. Some guy 08:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is because it is supposed to be labeled TMU/Pipe, not just TMU alone.Coldpower27 04:32, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, for some reason, the table lists that one entry according to the old "pipeline" idea, where it first lists the number of "rendering pipelines," then the number of TMUs per pipeline, and then the number of Vertex Shaders/T&L units. This has really been an outdated layout of things, since "pipelines" are no longer followed. In this case, it results in some ackward usage of things like pipelines: 16(48) to try to get across that a card has 16 ROPs, 16 TMUs, and 48 PSs. Perhaps it would be recommended for someone to fix it; I may take care of it if I get the time. It really should have multiple entries to reflect each type of unit. Nottheking 23:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

VPUs

For consistency, I've listed any GPU having FF T&L unit as 0.5 vpu, regardless of the number of actual T&L units.

Complete R100 section

Could someone fill in the information for the remaining R100 skus: Radeon DDR, SDR 7200 Downgraded to OpenGL 1.3 due to lack of programmability extensions

Fab process

Fabrication Process - Average feature size of components of the processor.

I thought it was minimum feature size. Tempshill 20:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's not. The actual transistors are smaller than the fabrication process listed, and some of the interconnects are even thinner still. Marking it by the minimum feature size would be too confusing, and hence "average" has been what it's always been defined as, in any sort of publication. Nottheking 00:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Affirm Nottheking. Average feature size is used because some features are much larger than the process used, others are much smaller. Minimum feature size would cover < 1% of all features on the process, average accounts for a much larger number of the features, in addition to being a number reflective of the size of all features, not just the ones at size X. Sahrin 01:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Radeon Mobility Updates (x1900)

Fujitsu Siemen (EU Division) is releasing a laptop(AMILO Xi 1554) with a Radeon Mobility x1900 256Mb XT/XTX. Not much information has been released. Updates for the ATi video card list needed soon. http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=29358, http://laptoplogic.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17759, http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/home/products/notebooks/amilo_xi_1554.html. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SatsukiMikata (talk • contribs) 16:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Xpress 1100 and 1150 VPU

Is there a source that says that the 1100 and 1150 igps have dedicated vertex units? or is it host based as the 200m series? Everything I've read seems to suggest it's basically a smaller process of the RS482 with support for AM2

Missing cards and parenthetical notation in fillrate

It seems like this table is missing X1050 and X1550 cards. Or are these a rebranding of other ones?

Also, for some cards a second value is listed in parenthesis in the fillrate column, higher than the other value. (e.g. "2000 (6000)") What does this mean? Any help is appreciated. Sir Fastolfe 02:28, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

X2K series is upside down

All the other series run from low-end -> high-end, while the X2K series runs from high-end -> low-end. Is there any reason for this or should it be fixed? Pik d 23:02, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since it's been about a month and no one gave any reasons for it to not be fixed, I went ahead and edited this. Pik d 18:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 missing?

It seems that at least one model is missing here - mobility 9200. http://ati.amd.com/products/MobilityRadeon9200/index.html

Discussion moved from Top of Page

ATi is the correct capitalisation, and not ATI. Should this be changed?

It would appear that both capitalisations are actually correct, or at least, that the all-capitals form is correct; while the ATi logo suggests that the last character is in lower-case format, all print/media writings of the name I've found capitalized all of the letters; thus, it could make sense to leave the name the same. Nottheking 23:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Could there be some other or more specific details of GPU processing elements than those pipes, TMU's and VPU's? Melter

The four primary processing elements of a GPU are the ROPs (often now simply called "pipes,") TMUs, pixel shaders, and VPUs. There is also the memory controller(s), which are mentioned separately. Aside from that, there is little more on the GPU proper other than, perhaps, cache, but no readily availible documentation covers any other part of a GPU's structure other than that. However, the tables could perhaps use a form of listing components that provides more clarity, especially with the R500 and later designs, where the old design of a "pixel pipeline" was completely eliminated in favor of a less rigid, multi-threaded system. Nottheking 23:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can't believe the table doesn't show Shader Model support of individual chips... Terrible, that definitely needs to be added. -- xompanthy 01:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You should be able to tell what Shader Model a graphics card supports by looking at the Direct X version of the product.

As mentioned above, SM is more or less the same as DX version; the only exceptions are for various DX 8.0 versions, which don't apply to Radoen cards anyway. DX 8.1 is SM 1.4, DX 9.0 is SM 2.0, DX 9.0b is SM 2.0x, DX 9.0c is SM 3.0, and DX 10 is SM 4.0. Nottheking 23:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someone had written that the X1600 Pro/XT only had 4 pixel pipelines, and 12 shader units. This is incorrect. The card has 12 pixel pipelines and 12 shader units. I have changed the information for these cards accordingly.

Actually, neither are correct; the RV530, like all R500-series parts, has ZERO pixel pipelines; rather, it instead uses a threaded task system, using an arbiter processor on the GPU to distribute the workload across individual units, rather than relying on a pipeline structure that tied a pixel shader and one or more TMUs to a single ROP. Hence, I've edited the whole collumn to reflect this. Nottheking 23:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Good catch nottheking. This was a mistake on my part when I re-aligned the columns for the R500/R600/Mobility Radeon parts. Thank you for correcting my error. Sahrin 01:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is some missing info. The RV351 was an improved RV350 with lower power consumption, less heat (and a die shrink?). It appears on the Mac as the 9650 (sometimes 9650 XT) and has 256Mb of RAM. There are also PC 9600s using the RV351. And there is also a card called the ATi Rage 128 Ultra, which comes in 16MiB and 32MiB versions, and as low profile. It appears to be a Rage 128 Pro with faster clocks... Anonymous Coward 04:04 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this page, it's very useful to me! Chris D'Amato 20:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bandwidth is calculated incorrectly. I've changed it to use GB/s, where GB/s=10^9 bytes/second. To properly calculate bandwidth in GiB/s it's (bus width * effective clock of memory) / 1073741824 (bytes/GiB) / 8 (bits / byte)

Continous lists, divided in AGP and PCI-e categories, are becoming obscenely long. Should this article be modified as to be categorized by core families instead of native buses, as is Comparison_of_NVIDIA_Graphics_Processing_Units?

Just as a note, my most recent edit is implied by other comments I posted here; in a moment of absent-mindedness, I neglected to write a comment describing my edit to the R500 table, which amount to a re-writing of what was previously the "pipe x TMU x VPU" collumn. It is now the "ROP x TMU x PSU x VPU" collumn; it PROBABLY shouldn't use the letter "x" to separate each number, but that seemed consistent with the style there. Likewise, unlike the other three processing elements of a GPU, there is no article yet for a pixel-shader processing unit as of yet. I've chosen the acronym "PSU," which might be a bit confusing, so I'll leave it to others to decide if that's one to use. Nottheking 23:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Style

According to the Wikipedia manual of style, "Graphics Processing Units" in the title should be all lowercase.

Console Graphics Processors

I just noticed that the Xenos(Xbox 360) has a fillrate listed as 16000 compared to 648 for the Flipper(GameCube) and 972 for the Hollywood(Wii). This seems like a huge difference. Can anyone check the numbers on this? Daemonward 13:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the other GPUs, it appears that the fillrate should equal (Core Clock Max) * (Number of Texture Mapping Units). I'll do the calculations and make the appropriate changes. If I'm wrong, please correct me. Daemonward 14:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You would be correct, though that would be for the texture fill-rate. For the pixel fill-rate, it would be equal to (Core Clock Max) * (Pixels Per Clock Cycle), though that figure isn't included on the chart. The 648 mTexels/second is the correct figure for the Game Cube's Flipper, though the true number for the Wii's Hollywood is unknown, as both the design of the chip as well as its clock speed are unknown. (the figures used are stand-ins that have no cited source that dates after the console's release) The Xbox 360's Xenos was incorrect, as you noted, as it has 16 TMUs, and runs at 500MHz. Thank you for correcting that. Nottheking (talk) 04:11, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

HD 3870 X2

The new HD 3870 X2 are a bit confusing about they PCIe specifications, becouse it uses PCIe 2.0 (MSI R3870X2-T2D1G, MSI R3870X2-T2D1G-OC) for the card interface, but uses PCIe 1.1 (Tom's Hardware "ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 - Fastest Yet!" (page 4 of 20)) for the on-card Crossfire. - Placi1982 (talk) 12:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the specs on the 3870X2 to reflect Powercolor's upcoming release containing GDDR4. It should have 2 x 512mb GDDR4. Someone put 2 x 1024mb, if you know something about that please put it here! Decembermouse (talk) 05:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Original Research for R700 section

I don't know German, so I tried to Google translate the website cited in the section (here: http://www.hartware.de/news_44085.html) to English (for your convenience: here), it yields the following in the translated text:

We unfortunately have no way to verify this information, but [it is] interesting to read them in any case.

As mentioned, this information is not official and therefore with caution. Up to the expected introduction of HD ATI Radeon 4000 series in June, it is still for a while, so that the details can change anything.

An {{original research}} was put up. Please discuss. --202.40.157.145 (talk) 02:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as we can see now, this information was unfounded and is outdated; it was ancient speculation, possibly old information, as then the word on the Radeon 4800s were that they would have only 480 stream processors, far fewer TMUs, and would have much higher clock rates. As we've seen now, the actual RV770 came with 800 stream processors, 40 TMUs, and more modest clock rates. It's also possible that some of this information has cluttered up and caused rumors on a supposed RV740 or Radeon 4700, which seems to be sporting specs eerily akin to what was previously thought to be RV770. Nottheking (talk) 09:57, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OpenGL 2.1 version note is misleading

The OpenGL 2.1 version note here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_ATI_Graphics_Processing_Units#OpenGL_version_note states that it supports GLSL and geometry shaders. This is misleading. Geometry shaders are not mentioned in the OpenGL 2.1 specification and are usually supported by vendor specific extensions. I think the WP entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opengl#Mt_Evans quite accurately explains when geometry shaders will be officially supported.

Maybe support for geometry shaders should be indicated separately by some different flag. 0meaning (talk) 08:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed long time ago. WheretIB (talk) 23:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Core Config

Because several ATI graphics units do not have any hardware vertex processing capability at all, there needs to be a consistent method of differentiating on the table cards with software vertex capabilities (IGPs), fixed function vertex units (R100) and no vertex processing capabilities (Rage).

Invalid Citations

You DO NOT cite sources from forum, forums are discussion areas. This is originally References #3

<ref name="Chile17012008">{{es icon}} [http://www.chilehardware.com/foro/ati-radeon-hd3100- t132327.html Chile Hardware thread], retrieved January 17, 2008</ref>
[http://www.chilehardware.com/foro/ati-radeon-hd3100-t132327.html Original Citation in Spanish]

Reference #7 (reason: forum)

<ref name="IT_OCP_17012008">{{zh icon}} {{cite web | url=http://www.itocp.com/thread-1931-1- 1.html | title=[ATI] First look at AMD 3650 and 3690, you'll regret to miss it. | author=OCP- News | date=2008.01.17}}</ref>
[http://www.itocp.com/thread-1931-1-1.html]

Reference #10 (errors corrected: language is english, not chinese, can)

[http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd3800/specs.html] (this is not chinese)

--Ramu50 (talk) 19:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder: For referencing citations, try to use the name of the company, or simple format such as Nvidia Geforce 9800X2 - Overiew, not the article's title for better verify and reaiable sources. Unless the webpage is a resource article, tutorital or web design such as Moving Beyond OpenGL 1.1 for Windows --Ramu50 (talk) 03:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Should this citation being removed? random images from unknown sources, the website look like a new reporting company so its better to quote the article not the image. --Ramu50 (talk) 17:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Power Consumption

Would really like to know how much power each card consumes, and whether or not is available commercially without cooling fan, ie using heatpipe or similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.90.76.16 (talk) 22:45, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This could potentially be added, but doing so would add another dimension of complexity. The TDP of each card is considerably more doable in a lot of cases, since in the past few years ATi and nVidia have made a point of publishing official numbers for these. For older cards, they kept them secret, and such numbers when found were produced by independent research with varying accuracy. As far as the availability of finding such cards with passive cooling solutions in lieu of active HSFs, that would be outside the scope of this page, since that is up to independent board partners to select for their own products, and is not something specified by the actual model specifications that ATi sets out for their hardware. It's akin to factory-OC cards, which are also not specified by ATi/nVidia, else they wouldn't be considered OC cards. Simply put, there would be too many variants to possibly cover them all. Nottheking (talk) 10:04, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page Protection and Other Language Citation

I think this article should totally be protected, each day they are thousand of people editing this page without any references and it is hard to track who is opposing who. I think ALL of non-english citation should have include a Google Translate link) for easier reading.

Don't link it to AltaVista Babelfish, they are very inaccurate.

--Ramu50 (talk) 16:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved by in Requested Pages for Protection (through chatting with admin), but still monitoring the consistency of article actions. --Ramu50 (talk) 01:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the edits I'm seeing to the article hardly ever have sources cited. Even if they're the correct figures, it's critical to properly cite them when we're dealing with tables of numbers here, as it helps fight inaccurate numbers due to speculation; for instance, I just corrected a couple lines that improperly listed the specifications of the RV730 GPUs, which coincidentally, had cited nothing; I added two sources for them. Into the future, I think I'll slowly go through this list as well as the nVidia list and add what sources I can... Yes, it's a lot, but the sources need to be there! Nottheking (talk) 05:59, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OpenGL 2.1 - supported?

This wiki page says that RV770 supports OpenGL 2.1, but on official AMD page there is only OpenGL 2.0 support mentioned.

[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.10.216.65 (talk) 21:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Radeon Xpress 1100 IGP

where should this card be reported? it states to have an RS485 chip and its pciid is 1002:5975 subsys 103c:30b0 while it sometimes is called RS482 [Radeon Xpress 200M] it takes 256M memory from the system RAM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.53.197.200 (talk) 13:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Radeon 4830

The page says that this card has 12 ROPs. According to Anandtech.com (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3437&p=3) it has 16 ROPs. Can someone please change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.211.251.118 (talk) 04:08, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The page also says that the card has 640 SPs (160x4). I thought it was 128x5. It's still 640 SPs, but it's a big difference. Dont all R700 processors come in clusters of 5, with 4 being simple ALUs and the fifth being a complex ALU? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.210.132.177 (talk) 16:46, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

AGP Signalling Voltages and Backwards Compatibility

Many of the cards list 'AGP', 'AGP 4x' or 'AGP 8x' as the Bus Interface, but this information says nothing about compatibility with other AGP interfaces. Some AGP 4x/8x cards are backwards compatible with AGP 2x while others are not. Some AGP 2x cards work in AGP 4x slots, other's don't. It all depends on whether the card will accept signalling voltage of the motherboard.

I think it would be useful to specify exactly which cards have versions supporting a specific AGP interface. It is a simple fix: where the Radeon X1050 lists AGP 4x/8x, PCIe x16, change it to show AGP 2x/4x/8x, PCIe x16 if an X1050 accepting 3.3V (AGP 2x) exists (it does). Also, no cards since the R300 series has supported 3.3V to my knowledge, so the changes should be minimal.

Unless anyone objects, I'll begin adding this information in the next few days. Mattst88 (talk) 02:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ATI Mobility Radeon 9100 IGP - Data Mismatch

Hello, I have an ATI Mobility Radeon 9100 IGP GPU, and Windows reports that the Internal DAC is clocked at 400 MHz. Every other utility I have used to gain information on the chip states that the chip is running at 300 MHz. Which one is incorrect? It doesnt seem like Windows is incorrect, since it is the one with direct access to the hardware, but every other utility says it is running at 300 MHz. What is going on? Presario (talk) 19:34, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PowerColor HD 4730

Hello, I picked this product from Xbit Labs

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090529111225_PowerColor_Officially_Launches_Radeon_HD_4730_Graphics_Card.html

And it shows that PowerColor has released a new HD 4730. I was wondering if you could add that to the list?

--124.188.26.68 (talk) 12:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

R800 / 5xxx series

This section should be removed as it has no sources and everything I can find points to the fact that R800 is not the correct codename ("Evergreen" is according to http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3573 which isn't a rumour site.) The 5xxx codename is original research, inferred only from 3xxx and 4xxx, because I can find no reliable references to it on the internet. And the product names and specs are just plain made up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.186.102 (talk) 20:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's why it has the original search tag... this section will be kept until sources will be provided. Further more, don't generalize sites! Sure, sometimes they spin rumors but this time they got bits and pieces from official sources. This might be a rumor: Trillian. Regarding the Evergreen bit, it remains to be see but I hardly doubt that AMD will go for a numberless code name for PC parts.

Em27 (talk) 21:44, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keeping this section as the cards are now official.

What's with the "Cypress XTX" being included? I follow hardware news pretty religously and here on this wiki is the first ever mention of it, without any sources provided. A quick google search only results in this wiki page as well(WP:V). I'm deleting the entries until more evidence surfaces--81.243.7.205 (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

4650/4670 TWP W update

Reference 21 states (from the AMD/ATi presentation slides), the maximum board power usage to be 48W/59W, respectively.