Talk:Black Army of Hungary

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	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)

Undefeated?

In 1467 at Baia Mathias Corvinus was defeated by Stephen the Great king of Moldavia.So it is not the only undefeated army in Europe since Alexander.Besides there are many other examples of undefeated standard armies in that period.Please delete this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.114.58.113 (talk) 22:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian gypsy lies. . Nomad vlach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.111.185.112 (talk) 09:53, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vlach (modern Romanian) countries were vassals of Hungarian and Polish Kings, latter the turkish Ottoman Empire.

Considerations about the Black Army

1. "It is recognized as the first standing continental European fighting force not under conscription and with regular pay since the Roman Empire".

Not quite. The French Compagnies d'Ordonnace appeared during Charles the VIIth military reforms in the 1440's, almost two decades before the Black Army. Also, they were followed quickly by the Burgundian ones. Especially the Burgundian army of Charles the Bold shows the mixed unit tactics employed by the Black Army, the French Compagnies being more of a cavalry force. They are most likely results of a convergent evolution. Also, there have been several similar forces before this - Janissaries, for example, also professional soldiers ("They wore uniforms and were paid in cash as regular soldiers"). So, the Black Army wasn't such a novelty.

2. "and reputed to be the first military body to be undefeated in the field (under one ruler) since Alexander the Great in European combat history."

As posted above, Mathias Corvinus did engage in a pitched battle with the Moldavians at the Battle of Baia in 1467. And this strikes at the supposed invincibility of the Black Army, because, while some sources claim to have been a Hungarian victory (while a pyrrhic one), others clame to have been a Moldavian victory. On the other hand, even if it was a Hungarian defeat, the Black Army might have not been envolved. A large part of the Hungarian army at that battle was comprised of forces from the voivodate of Transylvania, with some royal banderies. Those royal banderies MIGHT, or MIGHT NOT have been the Black Army. Also, in the article about the battle of Baia, it states that "thereafter he (Corvinus) fined the Transylvanians a sum of 400,000 florins, which they had to pay immediately, in gold. With this money he raised an army of foreign mercenaries, which would prove more loyal to him." It cites as a source the Historiae Polonicae. Wouldn't this be the actual birth of the Black Army? Some help in clearing this would be appreciated.

For these reasons, I have changed the article to a more neutral tone, by removing these lines. Flavius T (talk) 00:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)Flavius T[reply]