Talk:Charles the Fat

Sorry, but no one's been able to prove to me that Charles the Fat doesn't count as Charles II of France. Minimax 20:31 30 May 2003 (UTC)

The ordinal tradition was not in use in their days. It is a later invention. The ordinals came to use apparently in 15th (or already in 14th) century. These earlier monarchs were numbered using hindsight. However, the "correct" ordinals were important to kings of France who began to use them. Thus, they created an official canon of "rightful" kings. To them, French monarchy began from Clovis (whom they claimed as an ancestor in female line) - Carolingians were interlopers. Charles the Fat did not leave a good reputation. And he was a sideline person to reign France. Thus, he was left out from the canon. Whereas Charlemagne was really important, thus he was Charles I in that canonical numbering. The next was Charles II the Bald. Charles III the Simple was the last of that name before Capetians. And, Charles IV, youngest son of Philip IV, was the first Capetian with carolingian name Charles to ascend the throne of France. I try to say it again: These ordinals come from late medieval canon ordered by then kings. We cannot alter that fact. 217.140.193.123 16:05, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Man, what an ass Minimax was about this. Nobody's been able to prove to him? What a jackass. Charles the Fat did not get a number. john k 22:47, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why "the Fat"?

Can anyone tell me why he was called "Charles the Fat"?

Could I make the obvious assumption that he was overweight, or is there another meaning?

I notice that a king further on was also called this name.