Talk:Brandenburgers

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see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburger_Regiment

text used as a basis for this article. may be a copyright prob with this. looks like it's been lifted straight from the site noted on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburgers page.

understood... it now appears that the copyvio site cited was using a hidden mirrior of the other wiki article. So there's no copyvio problem with this page. Feco 05:19, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How is this page different from Brandenburger_Regiment... are they the same organization? Feco 05:19, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Brandenburg Regiment was only one manifestation of this unit. During the course of the war, it went from Company to Division. I guess. The Brandenburg Regiment was only an entity between 1941-1942. The Brandenburgers encompass this formation, but also the overall formation. (kind of like saying 'US Rangers' instead of '75th Ranger Battalion')AnsbachDragoner

understood... can you take some time to clarify that in the two related articles? Maybe put some links between the two at the top of each. I couldn't tell that there was a difference between the two articles (at the time of my original comment). Feco

You'll want to be sure to include a link to this article on the Brandenburg (disambiguation) page. Moncrief 06:48, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

will do and will do. Ansbachdragoner

question regarding section "Operation Barbarossa - Ostfront"

somthing's fishy with the example about the fall of Maikop, it's reported here that it fell the 9th of august 1941 which is completely wrong (it actually happend in late 1942). The germans were nowhere near maikop in 1941. Maybe the dates are wrong? Yet since the information in the example is not correct I that it should either be corrected or removed. andreas_td 14:14. Mars 1, 2006 (UTC+2) Dates were completely wrong. This Folkersalm's raid occured in October 1942. This has been corrected.--ansbachdragoner 23:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Abwehr II.

Hello, I have made some articles about Operations to Ireland that involved Bandenburgers. You can find them all listed at IRA Abwehr World War II. Fluffy999 16:50, 28 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brandenburgers sounds stupid, because the noun brandenburger is also used in the pluraral form (der Brandenburger-singular)(die Brandenburger-plural), the usual name in germany is "Die Brandenburger"(comment of a german user--84.189.11.35 12:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC))[reply]

War Crimes?

What about the darker sides of the Brandenburgers?--134.76.10.66 14:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Operating in enemy uniforms is a war crime!, but if you mean massacres of villages, etc, find evidence and we shall gladly put it on the article V. Joe 14:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regiment Motto

Where is the source on the 'Motto' "Hie Gut Brandenburg Alle Wege"? Because it absolutely makes no sense in German... "Hie" is no word and "Alle" can't be capitalized in this 'context'. Besides, the German Wiki-page on the topic does not mention any motto at all. 88.217.32.22 (talk) 23:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It does not make sense in contemporary german;) It is some kind of a motto of the electoral brandenburg army. I've never heard it with the special unit, but it was the motto of the Brandenburgian units of the prussian army in WW1. It is simply an old fashioned greeting among Brandenburgers (meaning Natives of the Mark Brandenburg). It is also the title of a song about the Mark Brandenburg.JCRitter (talk) 13:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

this Motto is the name of a older march that will be later the march of the sof regiment, hie you can translate from german dialekt with "sie" englisch for them for the soldiers from or of brandenburg --87.183.251.250 (talk) 19:30, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Abwere/brandenburger confusion

There seems to be inclusion of non-Bradenburger Abwere operations (such as South Africa) in the article. Can someone please provide sources that Brandenburger units were used outside Europe and North Africa?[[Slatersteven (talk) 18:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)]][reply]

The book "Kommando" by James Lucas is a fantastic and all encompassing source for not only the Brandenburgers but all the other WW2 German special forces, including such units as the shadowy KG200 and the Werewolf units. Anyone who is interested in the subject of German Special Forces of all types, land/sea/air/political, needs to read this book.

They were not in South Africa but in central and sub-saharan Africa. There was a 'urban legend' theory among the German high command (among hundreds that deluded the Third Reich) that the British supply lines ran *through* Africa from ports in Togoland to the upper Nile and from there down into Egypt. A special Kommando of three units was sent to find the fabled supply line but found nothing. And by the time they returned, Rommel had lost the Battle of El Alamein so it was irrelevant anyway. Yanqui9 (talk) 03:30, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Allied soldiers wearing other uniforms, higher morality...

"... unlike their allied counterparts, the Brandenburgers were very particular about donning another nation's uniform. This chivalric code..."

Concerned about this phrase. It suggests that Allied special forces were 'not particular' (i.e. not worried about) disguising themselves in their opponents uniforms, and implies the Bradenburgers were operating on a higher moral code. My understanding is that it was very rare for Allied special forces to dress in their opponents uniforms. Possibly this is a false statement.

I am also concerned about the explicit suggestion that the Brandenburgers were operating on a higher moral plane than many other troops. Possibly delete the sentence I've highlighted? --mgaved (talk) 18:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is not one example of British Army personnel disguising themselves as enemy troops. This article thus proves that this was only a tactic of the Germans, unless the person who made the statement admits that this is a poorly constructed article and that the subject is not well understood.

Furthermore, I wouldn't say that the Brandenburgers were founded with the intention of conducting the sort of operation that Stirling had in mind when he founded the SAS . The SAS (as well as the numerous other allied units such as the LRDG and PPA) conducted long range raids and earned their reputation in a completely different enviroment. When they did fight in Europe they were self-supporting, behind enemy lines for long periods of time, unlike this German unit which merely operated ahead of the main force. The Brandenburgers used captured weapons because they often masqueraded as the enemy, the SAS did so because they had no other source of ammunition.

When the Brandenburgers did begin to adopt these tactics, it was in North Africa, after the Afrika Korps had experienced first hand the effects of these long-range raids. It would be reasonable to assume that the Germans merely copied British ideas, using the most suitable unit they had at their disposal. It is interesting to note that the Axis forces never mastered this form of warfare as the British did.--81.76.51.194 (talk) 15:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to Peter Flemming in "Operation Sealion" ("Invasion 1940" earlier title), it is *not* against the Geneva Convention to wear the uniforms of enemy forces for disguise, it is only against the Geneva Convention to carry weapons while doing so. Conversely, secret raiders could 'legally' fly the flags of neutral or allied nations as long as, as soon as combat was engaged, they hauled down the false flag and raised their own flag. Of course, being caught in an enemy uniform is probably going to get you shot anyway because it'll really piss 'em off but *technically* it is only a warcrime if you carry weaponry while in disguise (so Skorzeny and his men were still war criminals since they carried out their executions of US troops while in US disguise).Yanqui9 (talk) 03:36, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm quite concerned with the blatant lack of citation. Where are the sources? In all the documents and sources Ive come across regarding the Brandenburg Regiment, I haven't actually come across this notion of revealing 'true colours'. Kitchen-sink history? - Khorne25 (talk) 19:45, 24 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

operation areas Brandenburger

"invasion of Crete, .. infiltrate India, " have the writer of this topic any source of that and from where has he this information? --87.183.251.250 (talk) 19:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Training and Structure

"Despite the increased size, the Brandenburgers were still highly skilled. The training was physically and mentally demanding, with focuses on foreign languages, small unit tactics, parachuting, .." a lot of the soldiers of Brandenburger are Germans who lived befor in countries where the planned operation area will be, they speak the language and they know the living in this countries, that will be speciellty of them. Some only one bataillon will be trained for parachuting, not all of them --87.183.251.250 (talk) 19:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Brandenburg actions in Operation Marita

"Again, the Brandenburgers were to play a role, with a large 54 man team from III./Regiment Brandenburg (the Sudeten and Slavic battalion) seizing the vital dockyards at Orşova on the Danube a day before the opening of the campaign."

I have seen this statement on several other sites. There is only one small problem - Orșova has been part of Romania since 1919, and in 1941 Romania was an ally of Germany. From who did the Germans seized the docks? From an allied country?

[1] it states that: "Dressed in civilian cloths a detachment of 54 Brandenburgers of the II. Battalion took “Iron Gates” at Orsova on the Danube during the invasion of Yugoslavia. This allowed German river traffic to continue during he campaign." Doesn't this mean that they actually secured the opposite bank of the Danube instead of conquering a dockyard from an allied country? Flavius T (talk) 23:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]