Talk:Shadowrun

Does anybody think the Super Nintendo and Genesis versions of Shadowrun deserve their own pages? Both are hailed as great games (although usually by different groups of people as they are nearly opposite gameplay-wise), and have small cult followings, but neither was a real hit. --Furrykef 22:32, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe they do, but that's not the point. The question isn't whether those pages should exist or not, but whether people are up to add content or not. We may agree on the creation of those pages, but someone has to start it. I haven't played any of those games, so there isn't much I can do myself. – Mackeriv 01:47, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

If you want to make the pages, I think it should be done, since the NES game, for instance, is quite different than the RPG.

Gibson

Gibson has had a big influence on the game and the genre. It's been so long since I've read Neuromancer I can't remember specificly what is used in the game aside from the idea of the Matrix. Ideas? Thoughts? psyco_path_industries 08:21, 6 Aug 2004 (EST)

• The first two off the top of my head: the nuyen currency and the street samurai. NewYen in Neuromancer was the illegal script used in most unrecorded transactions and heavily used amongst the underworld, while the phoentically-similar nuyen is the global currency in SR. Molly Millions is the quintessential street samurai, in fact, is even called that at one point in the Gibson book. Her look was originally appropriated into the street samurai archetype in the first SR editions, i.e. surgically-implanted mirrorshades, retractable claws, boosted reflexes.--YoungFreud 05:42, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Though it doesn't pertain to the pen and paper game, but for what it's worth, the Genesis game often asks you to pick up clients with names/pseudonyms like "Alan Turing"; one of these names is "Nero Manser". The SNES version's main character is named Jake Armitage. - Furrykef 03:27, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Boston link

The Boston link could do with updating to point to the appropriate Boston article, but I'm not sure which it is. --John 23:26, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

What's wrong with it? WikidSmaht 07:45, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Magic?

Could someone who plays add a bit about magic? How it came around, how it blends with technology, etc.? A friend said I should study Shadowrun for a story i'm writing, but information on the backstory concerning magic is scarce.

Magic in Shadowrun just is. There really is no explanation on it's origins or how it came to be, but there are patterns. Historically, the global level of mana moves in 5000 year cycles (with the possibility of occasional spikes, like say the Dark Ages) with it very low in off cycles, and then in 2011 when the cycle changed and the mana levels shot straight up. Monsters showed up, people gave birth to elves and dwarfs, and occultists and mystics found that their rituals and spells showed very visible effects. A few years later, more creatures appeared and some people started turning into orks and trolls.

As for magic and technology, they really don't get along too well. A big thing in SR is a character's Essence rating, which shows how much of a character is natural. The idea is that the more Essence a character has, the stronger their spirit is connected to the world, and the more control over magic a mystically awakened character has. As someone replaces parts of their body with cyberware (replacing is the key word here), the more unnatural their body becomes and their Essence rating drops. A character must have a positive Essence rating to remain alive, or else there's not enough of the natural body for the spirit to attach to.

It is notable to mention that there is a procedure called cybermancy, where one's spirit is essentially "tricked" into thinking that there is enough of the body to stick around when in fact most of it has been replaced by cyberware. However, it is a very complex and expensive procedure that requires constant treatment and monitoring, and it creates a devastating effect upon one's emotional state and presence to the point where such subjects are fittingly labeled as "cyberzombies." In game terms, it allows characters to have so much cyberware that their Essence score goes into negative numbers. Of course, with all the logistics involved, it's really reserved for monster NPCs designed to wipe out high-level parties.

The big thing to remember that magic in Shadowrun has a major attachment to life and living things. Emotional and environmental states also play a big part as well, with strong emotions and environmental conditions leaving impacts upon the Astral Plane. Places that see much joy and are naturally clean can leave an area astrally bright and warm, such as churches, concert halls, parks, and natural preserves. However, places that see or have seen much pain and suffering or have become heavily polluted can become mystically toxic, even for centuries for come, such as waste dumps, prisons, battlefields, and concentration camps being among the worst.

Naturally, the best thing to do is read the main rulebook and the biggest magic sourcebook (being Magic in the Shadows for third edition). You might want to wait until the end of the month when fourth edition comes out, however. --Paul Soth 07:07, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

*blink* Thanks! That was awesome! Some of that should definitely go in the article. Having it clear to those not familiar with the subject is a good thing. WikidSmaht 07:45, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

4th edition

I notice 4th edition's made some radical changes to the rules (edited dicepools, changes in profiles, no more rule of six, simplified combat etc). Would it maybe be a good idea to add a dedicated section about it?

I think a revision overview of what changed in each edition would be useful. DamienG 12:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Books Listing

I'm worried by the recent idea to start listing all the books for the game. Do you really think Wikipedia is the place to be listing this information when we can just link to [1] Ben W Bell 13:55, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a free, comprehensive encylopedia. By its very nature all the information exists some place or another - Wikipedia is neither a source for original thought nor a repository of links. Whilst at the moment they are just lists of titles there is no reason why they won't be further expanded upon and covered in-depth. ISee Resident Evil and its history for an example. If the list gets too long we'll throw it out into a separate article. DamienG 14:24, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I can't help thinking that by not putting the books into any particular category of listing, it's confusing matters a touch. I mean, there are books there from all the editions, a lot of which are compatible up until 3rd edition and others which aren't. Maybe I'm just looking into it too far. I mean, pretty much all of them'll probably be replaced now anyway. Aratos 18:36 28 September 2005 (BST)

No I think I didn't make my thoughts clear on this, completely my mistake. The problem I feel with the list getting fuller is it will start to take over the entire article. Lets see how it goes, though it should be easy to finish the list, but I think it should be hived off to a separate article otherwise the page is just a massive list with some text at the top. Ben W Bell 18:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

User: mattness. Here you are (have fun :) ):

• ROC Novels*

5078 Never Deal With A Dragon (Secrets of Power Trilogy #1) 5087 Choose Your Enemies Carefully (Secrets of Power Trilogy #2). 5145 Find Your Own Truth - (Secrets of Power Trilogy #3). 5189 Into the Shadows 5199 Streets of Blood 5210 2XS 5218 Changeling 5220 Never Trust An Elf 5302 Shadowplay 5310 Night's Pawn 5313 Striper Assassin 5365 Fade to Black 5367 Lone Wolf 5374 Preying for Keeps 5377 The Lucifer Deck 5427 Nosferatu 5445 Burning Bright 5448 Who Hunts the Hunter? 5495 House of the Sun 5496 Worlds Without End 5537 Just Compensation 5539 Black Madonna 5542 Dead Air 5593 Steel Rain 5628 Shadowboxer 5629 Stranger Souls 5630 Headhunters 5631 Clockwork Asylum 5674 Beyond the Pale (also 5710) 5709 Bloodsport 5710 Beyond the Pale (also 5674) 5711 Technobabel 5712 Wolf and Raven 5713 Psychotrope 5714 The Terminus Experiment 5741 Run Hard, Die Fast 5742 Crossroads 5749 The Forever Drug 5775 Ragnarock 5819 Tails You Lose 5839 The Burning Time

• FASA Sourcebooks*

7002 Shadowrun Gamemaster Screen 7003 Shadowrun Quick Start Rules 7100 Shadowrun (First Edition Miękka okładka) 7101 Shadowrun (First Edition Twarda okładka) 7102 SR1 GM Screen 7103 Sprawl Sites 7104 Street Samurai Catalog 7105 Paranormal Animals of North America 7106 The Grimoire 7107 Virtual Realities 7108 Rigger Black Book 7109 Shadowbeat 7110 Shadowtech 7112 Paranormal Animals of Europe 7113 Corporate Shadowfiles 7114 Fields of Fire 7115 Lone Star 7116 Prime Runners 7117 Bug City 7118 Corporate Security Handbook 7119 Cybertechnology 7120 Awakenings 7121 Threats 7122 Portfolio of a Dragon Dunkelzahns Secrets 7123 Underworld Sourcebook 7124 Cyberpirates 7125 Corporate Download 7201 Seattle Sourcebook 7202 Native American Nations Volume One 7203 London Sourcebook 7204 Germany Sourcebook 7205 Universal Brotherhood 7206 Neo-Anarchists Guide to North America 7207 Native American Nations Volume Two 7208 The Neo-Anarchists Guide to Real Life 7209 California Free State 7210 Tir Tairngire 7211 Tir na nOg 7212 Denver: The City of Shadows 7213 Aztlan 7214 Target: UCAS 7215 Target: Smugglers Havens 7216 New Seattle 7219 Target: Matrix 7301 DNA/DOA 7302 Mercurial 7303 Dreamchipper 7304 Queen Euphoria 7305 Bottled Demon 7306 Harlequin 7307 Dragon Hunt 7308 Total Eclipse 7309 Imago 7310 Elven Fire 7311 Ivy&Chrome 7312 One Stage Before 7313 Dark Angel 7314 A Killing Glare 7315 Celtic Double Cross 7316 Eye Witness 7317 Paradise Lost 7318 Divided Assets 7319 Double Exposure 7320 Harlequins Back 7322 Super Tuesday 7323 Shadows of the Underworld 7324 Predator and Prey 7325 Missions 7326 Mob War 7327 Blood in the Boardroom 7328 Renraku Arcology: Shutdown 7329 First Run 7330 Corporate Punishment 7331 Brainscan 7401 Sprawl Maps 7601 Into The Shadows 7701 High Tech and Low Life - The Art of Shadowrun 7900 Shadowrun Second Edition (hard cover) 7901 Shadowrun Second Edition (soft cover) 7902 SR2 GM Screen 7903 Grimoire Second Edition 7904 Virtual Realities 2.0 7905 Shadowrun Companion: Beyond the Shadows 7906 Rigger 2 7909 Matrix

• Fan Pro*

10650 Year of the Comet 10651 Target: Awakened Lands 10652 Threats 2 10653 Target: Wastelands 10654 Wake of the Comet 10655 Shadows of North America 10656 Shadowrun Companion 10657 New Seattle 10658 Magic in the Shadows 10659 Cannon Companion 10660 Shadowrun Third Edition 10662 Rigger 3 Revised 10663 Man and Machine 10664 State of the Art 2063 10665 Survival of the Fittest 10666 Dragons of the Sixth World 10667 Sprawl Survival Guide 10673 The Shadowrun Character Dossier 25002 Shadows of Europe 25003 Mr Johnsons Little Black Book 25004 State of the Art 2064 25006 Loose Alliance 25007 Shadows of Asia 25011 Shadows of Latin America 25014 System Failure 26000 Shadowrun Fourth Edition

Re: GURPS comparison

I intentionally removed the reference to the system being as flexible as GURPS because Shadowrun character creation ISN'T as flexible as GURPS. GURPS is designed to allow any kind of creature or character to be built under a certain number of points; Shadowrun limits player characters to encourage cohesiveness. As a comparison, GURPS devotes an entire book (in a pair of core books) to creating characters alone, while Shadowrun uses a few chapters mixed in with setting and game systems. Not to be detrimental--Shadowrun's system encourages cohesiveness and viability, wheras GURPS's encourages experimentation. I do apologize for removing the comment without due warning, though. Is it possible to change it now that I've explained why? Alderson Disc 22:15, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

• But the system itself IS as flexable as GURPS, regardless of what they encoruage you to do...

Earthdawn?

Is Earthdawn REALLY the past of the Sixth World? I thought that was retconned away, or just "flavourful" speculation? MasterGrazzt 23:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes it is. It may not have originally been designed that way, but it became that way. In Shadowrun there is the danegrs of the Horrors coming through again, in fact there was a big plot arc about them trying to come through early which resulted in Dunklezahns death. There are a lot of characters which appear in both, mainly the great dragons but also a few elves. Ben W Bell 08:09, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Riggers vs Deckers

I have begun reading through the fourth edition book and I am having trouble understanding the difference between these two seperate classes. Can someone please explain the difference to me?

Um technically speaking in 4th edition there isn't really a difference, they have both been condensed into the Hacker character type. If you want some better answers to specific Shadowrun questions you're better off asking at Dumpshock Forums the Shadowrun forums. Ben W Bell 08:05, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Theoretical Trolls

This might be of lesser importance, but does anyone have a link explaining what a theoretical troll is? I tried to google, but found nothing but copies of this wikipedia page. The term doesn't seem to be used anywhere else on the net. I don't doubt the concept exists, played a campaign with a damn near unkillable troll in 1st edition, but does it have the wrong name here?

A Theoretical Troll refers to the unfortunate tendency for some players to "min-max", which means to build a 

character that stays within the letter of the rules, but they exploit every little possible loop hole to make the most powerful characters possible. In First Edition Shadowrun, it seemed as though the publishers need to reinforce just how brick-wall-like Trolls were, and they unintentionally built exploits into the system for them. However, I would like to point out that Theoretical Trolls exist only by the good graces of each individual GM. No game system can cover all the bases, and since no RPG will ever claim to have indisputable rules, the GM's must be "middle managers", and enforce their own rules, and their own world. I hope this helped. If you would like an example of a Theoretical Troll, I still have all the first edition books, and I could probably create one and send it to you. Contact me at Aardvark892@msn.com if you'd like that. I hope this helped.