Talk:Seven Laws of Noah

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the 29 enumerations

Looking back on the edit history the listed enumerations seem to be a continuing bone of contention, at the moment including the confusing proscription: "God saw the lawlessness, so He flooded the earth. (Genesis 6:11-13)." The current list is based on one I dredged up over a year ago from http://www.noachide.org.uk/html/30_noahide_laws.html that lists 30 according to Rabbi Shmuel ben Hofni. I think the current format makes it somewhat ambiguous whether the list is simply a catchall or exclusive to Shmuel ben Hofni (in which case there should probably actually be 30, as opposed to 29). Personally, Im not sure we should give preference to Shmuel ben Hofni, and think the article would be best served by doing away with the list all together, instead simply disusing notable features of Rabbinical interpretation (as is the case now anyway). If there is objection to deleting the list as an item please let me know what you think the list should, in fact, refer to so that a header of some type can be put up. Black Platypus (talk) 11:46, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Islam

I see there is already some existing argument about "Islam" as an "invented practise". Avoiding further discussion of רם-בם, I've just pointed out that Sharia law and the Noahide laws both endorse similar practises. If anyone feels this is badly phrased or incompletely, feel free to change it, but I'd really prefer if Islam remained referenced here. סרסלי, קײק פּלז (talk) 09:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've deleted the sort section on Islam, tagged as unsourced for some time. It will need sources that specifically discuss the conection. Misarxist (talk) 11:54, 4 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Homosexuality

How does: "24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." imply that male homosexuality is not permitted? And if that somehow implies that male homosexuality isn't permitted, doesn't that mean that female homosexuality isn't permitted? It seems people are applying Leviticus to genesis. 207.196.187.140 (talk) 22:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have a point. I think the article's been changed since then, but I don't really read that part of the Old Testament/Torah as a prohibition of homosexuality, male or female, but it's obviously the traditional viewpoint. It merely says man and wife will become one flesh and not be ashamed. Where is the prohibition? I think it's been interpreted against male homosexuality because it specifically says "a man shall leave his father..." though.98.168.192.162 (talk) 11:23, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The prohibition was introduced in this part, but was fully described to Moses on Sinai. It´s the same principle of idolatry and blasphemy, for instance, that was only fully described to the jews. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.11.36.39 (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So does the fully described prohibition only apply to Jews, or is it supposed to apply to those who received the abbreviated version via Noah? --99.96.100.176 (talk) 17:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maimonides in the Laws of Kings is quite unequivocal that homosexuality is included in this prohibition. JFW | T@lk 21:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like I am headed for Gehenna, then. 70.177.94.136 (talk) 15:03, 10 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The term sexual intercourse between males would have been more appropriate, because homosexuality does refer also to the tendency which alone doesn't form an offense and furthermore intercourses without this tendency remain well forbidden, it includes also female homosexuality which is not prohibited for non-jews nonwithstanding moral judgements on the matter.--Ha-y Gavra (talk) 11:45, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You people need to stop applying Talmudic and even Jewish Torah interpretations to NOACHIDE Law! Take it word-for-word and leave to Bene Noach to interpret! Why does a Jewish rabbi's opinion matter to a Ben Noach?75.21.119.97 (talk) 20:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hebrew and english versions

I find it very strang that the hebrew and english versions of this page give a differnet set of laws. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.111.13.200 (talk) 03:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Could you clarify which differences you find particularly important to address? JFW | T@lk 17:39, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Prohibition to eat flesh from a living animal

Dietary Law: Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive.^{[dubious – discuss]}^{[citation needed]}

The Genesis text says only "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it." This seems to means the same as Leviticus 7:26 "You are not to eat any blood", Deuteronomy 12:23 "Only be sure not to eat the blood", Deuteronomy 12:16 "Only you shall not eat the blood; you are to pour it out on the ground like water." etc., namely a prohibition to consume blood (cf. kosher methods of slaughter and meat preparation). http://bible.cc/genesis/9-4.htm.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 22:14, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I find that this interpretation is in fact found in the Talmud (Sanhedrin), and it is one of the least far-fetched interpretations of the Tanakh that I saw in it (check out the "proof" that Adam and Eve were given 6 commandments!). So I'm removing my objections, but in both of these cases I'm adding the Talmudic reference as a source and clarify that these are the Talmud's interpretations. Providing just the Biblical reference, as the previous editors had done, is very confusing, because no reader would see such content in these quotes, and it is, hmm, not uncontroversial that the content is inherently present in them.--91.148.159.4 (talk) 23:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Noahides = Gentiles

With superfiscial knowledge one can think Noahides refer to all humans, but that is simply a mistake. It only refers to the gentiles, who have to keep the 7 Noahide laws, but not on Israelites, who have the (Oral and Written) Torah as law. For reference check Sanhedrin Chapter 7. The Soncino edition (= Talmud Bavli) can be found here for example: http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/index.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.133.27.75 (talk) 22:58, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Jewish law incorporates the 7 Noahide Laws. You are correct that the term "Noahides" does not usually include the Jewish people. Is that a problem? By the way, Come and Hear is hosted by a bunch of rabid anti-Semites, so be careful. JFW | T@lk 19:11, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sodomy

according to the definition of this word in the link, it seems a little misleading, because only homosexual sodomy between males is prohibited, so I insist that homosexual intercourse between males is better --Ha-y Gavra (talk) 11:21, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]