Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2010 September 17

This was nominated for speedy as promotional by Ohconfucius and after that the article's creator argued strongly for it to be restored. So I userfied it to User:Music43lover/Giorgi Latsabidze and after some heavy cutting I tend to agree with Ohconfucius that it is still thoroughly beyond repair. Placing this here for a consensus whether it should stay deleted, or restored. Kimchi.sg (talk) 05:18, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stay deleted - Not seeing any reliable sources in this article. That is especially problematic for a BLP. Everything in the "Notes and Additional References" section are really just notes, and not references (with the exception of a bare IMDB link, which is not a reliable source). Also, the tone of the article is still promotional, but I wouldn't say it's a candidate for speedy deletion in its current state. Add reliable sources and then delete everything that can't be sourced, and then you'll have an article. SnottyWong ^{spill the beans} 21:55, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

continue rewriting, and restore This is not a hopelessly promotional article; the version deleted was [1], sand it is undoubtedly promotional in style because of the long quotes. Calling it a G11 was, in my opinion, stretching the boundaries of G11 too far, but sometimes that's the only way to get something like this reduced to reason. Ironically, the 3rd party sources SnottyWong asks form & which is missing in the present article, was in the parts that were removed: the reviews. (they did need to be reworded to link to the actually published reviews, not the excerpts on the performer's web site.) In my opinion, just a botched job of rewriting that needs to be done over. DGG ( talk ) 23:37, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Continue editing and restore This article discussion has already been going on in several places (primarily on Kimchi.sg's talk page) and is out of synchronization with the continued editing that has been taking place. Please refer to the most current edited userfied version at User:Music43lover/Giorgi Latsabidze as well as to the earlier versions shown there. I am the original editor of this article and agree that many of the elements subsequently added by others were over the top and unnecessary. I have removed many elements in the recent editing, including the criticized quotes (leaving only references), the section on "Early childhood" and many of the added pictures and media links. Editor Kimchi.sg also deleted the sections on "Positions" and "Repertoire" that were added by others and can perhaps be considered excessive as well. However, he also for some reason deleted the pre-existing references that SnottyWong for example finds currently lacking, as well as essentially all of the other web references in the article outside of Wikipedia itself, and I don't understand the logic of those deletions. Many of the claims in the article are now without substantiation due to these unfortunate edits by Kimchi.sg. I suggest that the deleted references be restored, unless some valid reason for this exists. I am open to all suggestions for additional changes to make the article more encyclopedic and acceptable for restoration. Music43lover (talk) 01:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some additional notes regarding the references may be helpful here. The awards listed in the article gave as substantiation links to PDF copies of the award certificate images, such as the one at [2], which were deleted recently by Kimchi.sg. Although these PDF's are located on the subject's website, there is little reason to question their authenticity. In contrast, most such articles on Wikipedia that cite awards do not provide any substantiation at all. In the case of the quote extracts, I can be even more precise. I have the original newspaper copies in my possession, written in Russian or German. Since I could not vouch for the English translations available on the subject's website at the time, I scanned in the articles, did ACR on the scans and used multiple automatic translators together with some personal knowledge of German to produce my own translations. Since my translations are not "official", I referenced both my translations and the original text in the article with links such as [3] and [4]. Again these links direct to the subject's website, where I requested they be placed for this specific purpose. Unfortunately, the links were redirected by the website manager to a long page of miscellaneous quote excerpt translations, and those other than the ones that I specifically referenced have provenances unknown to me. I recently deleted the shorter extracts of the cited quotes from the article in response to criticism, although they appeared reasonably short to me, but I left the references to the full quotes. These were deleted by Kimchi.sg along with all other external references. Now the only references left are those to the original newspaper sources, which are relatively inaccessible. I suggest the following solution: I can place the short quote extracts (essentially one line) on Wikiquotes and reference these and the PDF copies of the longer quote extracts in the PDFs such as shown above. It appears to me that the article is being unfairly singled out for lack of suitable references due to changes that were out of my control, but can be readily fixed. Music43lover (talk) 21:24, 18 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pro-Ject

I created this page, at first with little content, explaining why Pro-ject is a very notable phonograph manufacturer; I had provided from the beginning one reference to a very reliable secondary source. I was intending to provide asap further sources, but the page got deleted in the mean time in spite of my hang-on tag and a note on the talk page that I would provide these links asap. Here are these links which support this claim that Pro-ject is one of the principal manufacturers of entry-level HiFi turntables. One (visibly not independent, but thorough) source [5] even quote Pro-ject as being the World's largest manufacturer of turntables.

Some more info can be found on the US importer's website [6] I tried (and am still trying) to find some reliable sales volume figures...no success so far --MarmotteNZ (talk) 13:09, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- /Comment: I have temporarily restored the history of the article so that the discussion can be facilitated for the non-admins also.
Restore and add the references. Not even a valid A7, since the article did claim importance--& even had a ref. to show it: The soundadviceblog review is a signed review, not a blog entry by a reader. DGG ( talk ) 23:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Restore and update with the additional references. VQuakr (talk) 23:55, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]