Talk:Sothic cycle

Earliest date

An obvious disagreement exists regarding Meyer's earliest date. Grimal gives 4323 BC while Mackey gives 4241 BC. The original year in the article, 4121 BC, was obviously wrong. I find five hits for 4323 BC in a Google search while 4241 BC has 155 hits. Changing time of history indicates that 4323 BC is a modern Sothic date calculation, not that by Meyer himself. The article must make it clear which year was Meyer's and which year is a more modern calculation. Indeed, both years should be mentioned in the article. I have doubts about 4323 BC because there are 1550 years between 4323 and 2773, 90 years more than the traditional Sothic period of 1460 years. If 4323 BC remains in the article, then who calculated it must be cited and how he did so should also be mentioned. — Joe Kress 02:28, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

That bothered me too, but all I've got is Grimal, Kitchen, and a smattering of other work which isn't very helpful.Thanatosimii 03:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The date on this page also disagrees with the date on:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_millennium_BC. Gene Callahan 10:27, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

The date mentioned in Meyer, Aegyptishe Chronology 1904 is July 19, 4241 BCE. This date is based upon a non-adjusted Sothic cycle of 1461 cal yrs and the July 19th date of the Canopic decree and the confluence of the Sothic Rise Festival with 1, Thoth mentioned by Censorinus. This date was incorrectly calculated from July 19 as 138 CE date. This error led Meyer to the quadrennium of 4241 - 4238 BCE. He chose 4241 BCE as the start date of the calendar because it was the earliest. I don't know where 4241 BC came from.

Meyer is credited with the discovery of Sothic dating, but the Sothic cycle was discussed long before and St. Clair, George Creation Records Discovered 1898correctly defines the unaltered Sothic cycle and places Censorinus' date correctly as July 20th 139 CE, coming up with July 20, 4242 BCE as the start of the calendar.

All known dates from Egyptian texts to Ptolemy's Almagest correctly correspond with the system of St Clair, but Meyer got the wrong quadrennium with the error on the date of the Canopic Decree. Meyer did go on to calculate dates internal to the calendar, while St. Clair turned his attention to the astronomy of Egypt. Arguably, St. Clair ties the first dynasty to the start of the calendar while I don't think Meyer does. If St. Clair's system works with the correct quadrennium and was published earlier, why is the discovery attributed to Meyer?

I pose this question in deference to the Berlin school of thought because Meyer's work was more influential. A cynical view would say that St. Clair was overlooked because his work conforms to the ideas of Norman Lockyear and Piazzi Smyth. --JimLowdermilk (talk) 16:20, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment on correlation

    The majority of the donations to this article ignore the astral altitude of the rising star in relation to altitude of the sun. If the star first appears at -30 min below horizon as light bends, then the sun must be a given distance of altitude below horizon because of its aura of 6 degree civil twilight, 12 degree nautical twilight, and 18 degree astral twilight. This means not only latitude of observation changes it, but so too the precession of the star from earth's axis will change its rising altitude. This is why although the star has been at Julian July 20 at 30 degrees for 2000 years, prior to that it was July 19 in 776 BC and July 18 in 1314 BC and July 17 in 1824 BC. Decades go by and these arrogant haught contributors of knowledge keep ignoring this fact published by Nobel in 1966.
    The year 140 AD is leap year so if Thoht 1 is July 20 in 139 AD

it is July 19 for the next 3 years, all 4 years claimed as the rise of Sothis. The year 2773 BC is likewise a Thoth 1 on July 17 whose previous year is July 18. 4241 BC is a July 19 date for Thoth 1. As for correlation placing Egypt's earliets dates as 2170 BC and 2030 BC and 2001 BC etc; the date for Thoht 1 is Jan 6 in 2001 BC and the winter solstice. The wprt name for new year has been used for sothis but also for solstice and not clear whether winter or summer. Connecting it to Nile flood doesnt help when the myth of Noah's flood is at winter solstice. Further, if Thot is the 7th month then Epagum days begin July 5 in 2001 BC so that the July 10 solstice is Pamenot 1 not 6. Every disagreement in short Genesis has a counterpart application in Egypt. Example, reunification in year 955. If Flood is year 600, and Noah dies in year 350, he dies in the year 350 that the Pharaoh was created. If using a 360-day calendar for those 350 years, then from year 600 it is year 955. Unification of dynasties 1-5 is then the same year and event for dynasties 6-10. The 5th being dead in Genesis in year 340, but in LXX in year 768. The date 1872 BC July 17 is Memphis. But what if its at Fort Quban where sothis rises on July 10 the solstice during the 12th dynasty. That blows those who try to trace July 20 back to a Gregorian solstice in 4242 BC. And at the time of that July 10 date in the year 120 of the 12th dynasty, let's say 1824 BC July 10 as second month Parmuti 16 (versus 8th month 22) we have Paopi 16 on Jan 6, so which is the wprt sopken of in record, winter or summer sothic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.76.46.169 (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

1460 vs 1461

The Sothic cycle or Canicular period is a period of 1,461 ancient Egyptian years (of 365 days each) or 1,460 Julian years (averaging 365.25 days each).

it seems like 1461 and 1460 are flipped? or not? im confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sihan (talk • contribs) 12:55, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

They're OK. Multiply years and days/year for both and they will be equal. — Joe Kress (talk) 19:13, 24 May 2009 (UTC)