Talk:Whore of Babylon

The central principle seems to be that the term applies to the defacto superpower of the day, and is the typical perceptual characterization of the people whom the superpower typically oppresses and persecutes.

A number of recent edits, esp. by Stevertigo, seem to point towards making this thesis. I like many of them, including the comparison to "Great Satan" (FWIW that currently redirects to Satan, and the Islamist rhetorical figure probably deserves separate and comprehensive treatment) and mentioning the USA as a candidate for the new Rome. OTOH, I do think the article as it currently stands seems to be POV in its eagerness to put forth this thesis. I would restructure it so that the relatively non-controversial portions come first (Biblical texts; identification with Rome) and that the candidates for the Whore of Babylon's identity come later. Smerdis of Tlön 17:11, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Clarification of the comparison of the "Great Satan" and the "Whore of Babylon" is a necessity, because the Islamic conception of Satan and the Judeo-Christian conceptions are not identical. A worthy research project!

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Both POV and incomplete. Book of Revelation presents many theories as to what Babylon refers to, yet this article can boldly claim that almost all Bible scholars (weasel, weasel) think Babylon is Rome? No. Start over, cite sources, and ixnay on the original esearch-ray. This article is authoritative in the bad sense. Wikipedia is not a primary source. 82.92.119.11 16:00, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I cannot claim to have read all commentary; but every source I have read agrees that Babylon equals Rome in these passages; which Rome, and when, are the only controversy. Who says different? I see nothing in the Book of Revelation article that suggests anything else. -- Smerdis of Tlön 20:13, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

After careful re-reading, I find that some vandal has managed to revert all the passages I saw without even leaving a trace in the edit history! I know this sounds unlikely, but the alternative is that I was talking out of my ass completely on a subject I know squat about by dramatically misreading the thing. I trust you'll agree that that is impossible, so it has to be a bug. I'll go post it at the bugzilla site immediately, reporting an 1D10T, or PEBKAC error. :-) 82.92.119.11 21:22, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, it was probably good to add some references to that material in any case. This is one point upon which there would appear to be a quite broad consensus, though. -- Smerdis of Tlön 22:51, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It might help to actually provide a little context on Babylon itself. Cripes, the word Babylon isn't even linked once to the article on the city-state of Babylon, which figures in just a wee bit in Judaica... The whole section is really dubious for this and other reasons. npov, dubious, you name it. 65.173.51.13 21:09, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Rastafari

Does anyone know how to change the Christianity template at the beginning so Rastafari can be put in. Babylon is a term of modern reference to modern day society thanks to the rastas, so the comment that almost no none biblical scholars have heard of it is untrue and has been removed. I think that given that the whore of Babylon does not refer only to Christianity, as the template implies, and so have removed it. If you don't like this please comment here. --SqueakBox 15:50, Feb 25, 2005 (UTC)

Lozana

What about mentioning the Sack of Rome and Roman whores like Portrait of Lozana?

The Roman Catholic Church denies the claim that it is the being referred to by the Book of Revelation as the Whore of Babylon...

Am I the only one to find this statement comical? ;) I mean: it sounds like the RCC for a moment considered that possibility...

International trading empires comprise the whore of babylon

Revelation makes it clear that the whore consists of those financial empires (located in New York) that run world trade through the ships on the seas. The origin of this was the ancient city of Tyre whose trading extended to the Americas and the rest of the world (tin to make brass for solomon's temple was imported from cornwall in britain, gold from the south americas, peacocks from sumatra) in the time of Solomon via the construction of the ships of tarshish. The central focus at that time was Solomon's temple in jerusalem, the height of it's promotion. Today, the very same global trading network still controls the world's goods, a trading system that does not acknowledge Jesus Christ. In the time of Solomon, the phoenicians did acknowledge yahweh for a while but since then having chosen not to acknowledge yahweh the network is thus titled the 'whore', a most accurate epithet for it. It is responsible for financing world wars and is the very essence of that delusional spirit that glorifies the world, the lusts of the flesh and of the eyes. However, God has used this babylon to bless the nations of the world just as he turned the gain of tyre in ancient times to the benefit of clothing and feeding His servants. The future of this babylon ends in perversion and this is the reason for the judgements upon it as laid out in scripture.

I have moved this section to talk. At minimum, I think it needs referenced. It is by no means clear that Revelation ever refers to New York; or for that matter what it would mean for a trading system to "acknowledge Jesus Christ." Not saying that these ideas are not attested, but they should be referred to a semi-notable source if they are to escape being labelled original research, and the whole text needs to be stated in a more NPOV fashion. Smerdis of Tlön 20:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Sorry for all the reverts. 81.79.246.22 made a lot of changes, and Myork and I kept reverting to the wrong page. I think it's all fixed now. Starbane 03:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Other uses

the whore of babylon is also mentioned and shown in several early scenes in damien omen II - t ali-23/01/06

Removed Hillory as Whore

Before you can make this kind of claim I think you need to provide some references:

Among right wing Christians, Current views that Hillary Clinton and the liberal
secularists from Hollywood and halls of political power are representative of
the apocalyptic Whore of Babylon.  The prophetical clarity of is questionable however,
there seems to be a growing concern among Millerite sub religions of the premillenial
view of the 2nd coming and interpretative views from this group indicate cultural and
moral decay will lead to the coming of Armageddon and the inevitability of the
glorious appearing and second coming of Jesus on Earth.

myork 14:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)