Talk:Amhara people

Etymology

"To learn" and "to grant mercy" are definitely not derived from the same linguistic root. The first is መሀረ (mähärä) መሐር (mäḥärä). Very similar. But NOT the same. 87.145.108.46 (talk) 01:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Disputed.

I agree. This page is horrible and racist!!! REMOVE IT!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.87.163.90 (talk) 14:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC) I will not be discussing in this page. I request that my participation in this propaganda page be removed permanently. 71.191.58.166 (talk)

The following quote is misleading, dishonest and bordering racism which you can tell by simple reasoning. It needs to be removed.

The Amhara can thus be said to exist in the sense of being a fused stock, a supra-ethnically conscious ethnic Ethiopian serving as the pot in which all the other ethnic groups are supposed to melt. The language, Amharic, serves as the center of this melting process although it is difficult to conceive of a language without the existence of a corresponding distinct ethnic group speaking it as a mother tongue. The Amhara does not exist, however, in the sense of being a distinct ethnic group promoting its own interests and advancing the Herrenvolk philosophy and ideology as has been presented by the elite politicians. The basic principle of those who affirm the existence of the Amhara as a distinct ethnic group, therefore, is that the Amhara should be dislodged from the position of supremacy and each ethnic group should be freed from Amhara domination to have equal status with everybody else. This sense of Amhara existence can be viewed as a myth.

1. The use of "supra-ethnic" hints at people who are above the rest of Ethiopians and shouldn't be promoted by wikipedia.

2. There is a region called Amhara region in Ethiopia. People who live in that region call themselves Amhara. The idea that Amhara is "a pot in which all other ethnic groups are supposed to melt" was true when people from that region had control over the government and required everyone to speak Amharic. It is not true anymore.

3. The idea that "Amharic doesn't exist as a distinct group promoting its own interest" is dishonest. It goes against historical facts and what we read about Amhara even on this page.

4. Again blaming the existance of Amhara in those who want to "dislodge" it from supermancy is dishonest. Amharas call themselves Amhara, NOT simply amharic speakers. This can be verified by simply asking an Amhara person or any other ethiopian individual or history books. Identity is better left the people themselves.

5. A century and half ago there was no country called Ethiopia. it was Abyssinia. So, the idea that Amharas used to refer to themselves simply as Ethiopians then is also dishonest.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.228.250 (talk • contribs) 08:14, 16 May 2009

removal

I removed the following statement (originally posted by 62.252.224.12) due to POV:

The Amhara are known for their beauty, as exemplified by the supermodel Liya Kebede.

As for the example of Liya Kebede, that article is already categorized under Category:Ethiopian models, which is more properly NPOV. I've made an attempt at re-wording it in this article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 01:42, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

pre-Christian religion of Amharas?

I've long been wondering if the Amharas practiced another religion before Christianity. Gringo300 19:04, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure, myself. I don't know the name of the religion practiced in Aksum prior to the introduction of Christianity. That would have been prior to the 4th century AD. I don't know if there was yet "Amhara" (or Gurage or Tigrinya etc.) as such. Ge'ez was in use for a while before it evolved into the present-day languages, but I don't know which came first: the ethnic groups or the languages? For all I know the ethnic groups are based on linguistic differences. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:31, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I believe Gyrofrog is basically correct; there was no "Amhara" or Gurage or Tigrinya in pre-Christian times, and yes, the "ethnic" groups were originally based more or less on linguistic differences... According to Ethiopian historians, the religion of Aksum prior to Christianity, but after Menelik I (980 BC-330 AD), was Mosaic Judaism, but with about one half the people in the area following Pagan cults. ፈቃደ 22:52, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, many Amhara are Oriental Orthodox. Gringo300 (talk) 23:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Disputed

Do priests actually perform circumcisions? I'm told that the midwife does this; the priest might bless the instruments used in the procedure but this is the extent of his involvement. Since I've merely been told this, I won't go so far as to assert it in the article. Perhaps there are local variations regarding the practice? But at least a source for the existing statement would be great. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, I'm wondering if the rest of the information in the "Religion" section is specific to the Amhara, or applies to Ethiopian Orthodox Christians in general. If the latter is the case, then I propose the information be moved to Culture of Ethiopia#Religion. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

you are absolutely right. It isn't specifically Amhara. Especially the "art" section should be removed. --Tiqur Anbessa 13:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Moved text from article

The following commentary was added directly to the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

"***(This is a miss representation of her ancestory, to call her ancestory largely Oromo is largely misleading. In fact her physical appearance has no bearing for her to be largely Oromo. There are physical differences between a typical Oromo and a typical Amhara. And she is a Typical Amhara rather than a Typicl Oromo. Largely, this is a corrupted view of looking at the history of Amharic people. For the start the name Amhara, according to the writer above is completely remomed from the people of Wollo where all indications and historical signposts suggested that it is the origin of the Amharic homeland. However, the name Wollo, it appears, complicated the matter since the name has orginated from Oromia.. This is the result of amalgamating a very large historical era and geographical area with the intetion of overlooking the history of some people who actually see themselves misrepresented for the large part of politically (rather than recording the true movements and histrorical events of people and places) motivated Ethiopian History. Thanks God this is an editable version, So, it is better to write a more accountable history of The Amharic regins rather than follow unsound signposts of chunks of its History." -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.122.76.251 (talk • contribs) 17:31, 6 February 2006.

I have read in "The Central Ethiopians: Amhara, Tigrina, and Related Peoples" by William A. Shack that the midwife performs the circumcision. It was published in 1974.

Why would the Ethiopian Jews not be regarded as Amhara?

I'm somewhat curious as to what criteria is required to be Amhara. Surely religious divergence does not change people to the extent that they no longer qualify as part of said ethnic group. Tombseye 22:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

First of all, you have provided no cite that Beta Israel are "genetically the same", so that would be OR unless you can. Secondly, even if you did have a source, it would be disputed / contested, because neither tribes recognises that they are "genetically the same". Thirdly, Amhara is not a genetic affiliation. The are several unrelated tribes who all adopted the same language and religion, ie , Ethiopian Orthodox. Any tribes like the Beta Israel (who have their own language) are not Amhara; the word Amhara in Ethiopia is virtually synonymous with Orthodox (of course not entirely since there are also Orthodox non Amharas, thise who speak other languages)... Even the so called "Muslim AMharas" are not regarded as fully Amhara, but go by a different name. All of this is sourced, try reading "The Ethiopians" also "Wax and Gold". ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 22:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The info. and link is on the Beta Israel article if you bothered to read it. We're not here to cater to the whims of what people believe. This is an encyclopedia, not a feel good to be whatever ethnic group forum. The Pashtuns don't view non-Muslims as Pashtuns, but that's hardly a reason to exclude Pashtun Jews. Yes, thanks but I know what Amhara believe and realize the exclusion of non-Orthodox, BUT these people are clearly related regardless of what they care to believe. You can also try reading 'Oromia and Ethiopia: State Formation and Ethnonational conflict' and 'History of Ethiopia'. Again, we aren't here to cater to people. Speakers of Amharic are Amhara. As for the article, it's frankly a mess. Disjointed, badly written and badly sourced. If you have a problem with one thing I wrote, then why revert the whole thing? It's not located in the Horn of Africa, for example? Tombseye 22:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Dude, neither the Amhara not the Beta Israel consider themselves to be one group. Why go out of your way to pretend to be an expert and say something totally contradictory to what the groups themselves say and chalk it off as "not catering"...? Come on, that is purely ridiculous. Find a source, any source, that says the two groups are the same, if it's not OR, and don't try pointing at wikipedia as your source. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

There are definitely Ethiopian Jews whose only language is Amharic, just as there are Ethiopian Jews who only speak Tigrigna. They are to be viewed as Amhara or Tigraway, respectively.--Tiqur Anbessa 13:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, the other thing you wrote about "AMhara live adjacent to the Red Sea" is also totally wrong and uninformed. The Amhara do not live adjacent to the Red Sea. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:11, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Uh okay. I'm not an expert, but this article does need a lot of work. Great, so you get to decide what is put into this article? I take it you're the expert then? Well, perhaps you should learn to read more carefully. I wrote that they live in the Horn of Africa which is adjacent to the Red Sea and not that the Amhara live adjacent to the Red Sea. Geez, talk about arrogant. I encounter lots of people who may be off-track, but strangely enough I don't make snide remarks. I didn't point to wikipedia as my source. I said the article on the Beta Israel links to genetic studies about their links to the peoples of Ethiopia. Man, are you this lazy or just stuck in, "I know all I need to know from the book I read." Well, when talking about Amharic speakers and their genetic links to each other, they clearly are closely related, but I won't push that issue. I do believe they can listed as a related people though. As for the article, it needs to be re-written. Perhaps your expertise could be better served by copyediting after I do something to fix the mess? Or do you plan to re-write the article? And the population stats are projections from the 1994 data or is that uninformed too? Tombseye 23:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The article was written by several experts beside myself, if you have any problems with it I strongly advise you to bring up your specific proposals on this page first. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:26, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

We're talking about the 6 paragraphs which took several experts? Where's the info. on culture, society? The history section is extremely meager as well. Nothing about the Richard Leakey finds or the theory on the links between most human populations the genetic markers found in modern Ethiopia. No mention of the traditional views of descent from Solomon and Sheba and Amhara claims of lineage. Nothing about ties to Kush. Nothing about literacy rates, gender issues, religious change (encroachment of Islam and Evangelicals). What exactly do you want to discuss in an article that hasn't got much to say anyway? Tombseye 23:41, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The Richard Leakey finds are not even Homo Sapiens. Come back when you have something intelligent to say. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 23:45, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Lol. You mean this Richard Leakey find?[1] If you're the barometer of intelligence I'm really not worried given your reading and comprehension skills thus far. Tell you what sport, you keep your little article with its massive information on the Amhara. I'm not in the mood to play an edit war with you. Tombseye 00:10, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Clearly, any speculation on identifying which modern tribe living in the 21st century is relevant for discussion of an allegedly 60,000 year old skull, is original research, no matter what species the skull was. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 00:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

What and who is an Amhara?

I think the history section is very messed up. The fight for Power wasn't between "Amharas and Tigrayans". And the Gondarine period is strongly influenced by Agew (for example Empress Mentewab) and Oromos. I also highly doubt that the "Amharas" ever saw themselves as one entity before the 19th century. It has been argued that Amharic was a certain kind of Patois of Ethiopia - a language spoken by the people living in the periphery of the Aksumite empire. If that is true, then Amharic is not a language of some "tribe", but the language of people with a diverse background. Even today many Amharas prefer to say "amarigna tenagari" (Amharic speaker) instead of Amhara. --Tiqur Anbessa 13:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

image

Dear wikipedians, the picture on the article page which represents the Amhara is old and very out-dated. Are there not more accurate and more current pictures which depict the Amhara people than this? Can you please get some newer, more current pictures please? -Kim

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Territorial

The amharas are not territorially defined through out their history.Since the emmergence of ethno centric political,economic and military power in the early 1990s an artificial Amhara Nation is created.If one takes into concideration the Emperial and Derg geographic divisions,i.e,administrative,Amhara today shrunk beyond recognition. Traditonal Amhar Gondar,Amhara Gojam,Amhara wolo,Amhara Shewa are disected in an operation theatre like fashion .An 87 year old man somewher in Armacheho told me "it is just like gone with the wind" to watch yor ancestral farming lands become part of "sudan" in a flash.He was crying like a child talking to me about the trajedies and tribulations that ordinary landless amharas are going through now a days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.231.88.223 (talk) 15:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

May 2010

According to Ethiopian ethnographer Donald Levine, "Amharic-speaking Shewans consider themselves closer to non-Amharic-speaking Shewans than to Amharic-speakers from distant regions like Gonder."

While I have respect for Professor Donald Levine, in this one quote he has made a very stupid mistake. The reason I say that is that the quote actually misspeaks for me (I am an Amhara from Shewa.)

it might have been the case that our ancestors felt more connections with the people in their neighborhood than those living in distant areas. However this has dramatically changed in the last 20 years of ethnic persecutions instigated by TPLF. Right now, all my relatives and neighbors I know from my area feel culturally, linguistically and in every other sense very "Amhara." (Painfully I must add). Honestly, I do not see much difference between the Amharic spoken in Gonder and that which is spoken in my home, Menze as opposed to that which is spoken in Addis. So yes, Donald Levine is wrong for two reasons 1)he is talking for me , which is a no-no 2) He should update himself rather than talk from research done 50 years ago

For these reasons I have deleted his quote for being false, misleading, misinformed and out of date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.72.64 (talk • contribs) 18:48, 6 May 2010

USEFUL INFORMATION to TPLF PROPAGANDA ratio in this article is 0 to 1.

Can you point to a reliable source (other than your personal knowledge) that indicates Levine is inaccurate? Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:32, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Images for Ethnic Groups

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups#Infobox Images for Ethnic Groups. Gyrofrog (talk) 18:46, 20 January 2011 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}}) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:46, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

---

All those who live in the Amara region call themselves Amara is wrong. Examples are the Cushitic speaking Agaws and Qimants.