Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard L. Thompson

Richard L. Thompson

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There are no reliable sources independent of the subject that show how he is a notable person who has made any notable contribution to his field of study. Does not pass either WP:SCHOLAR or WP:AUTHOR. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 02:55, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. —Ism schism (talk) 02:58, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. —Ism schism (talk) 03:05, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. —Ism schism (talk) 20:00, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or merge (to Hindu views on evolution initially, but possibly eventually to an article specifically on Vedic creationism). Thompson appears to be known almost solely for his work on Vedic creationism (no reliable third-party sources have been forthcoming on his mathematical work), and even there mainly for his work in conjunction with Michael Cremo (his solo efforts have yielded far less coverage). There appears to be no secondary coverage for biographical matter at all, and even including primary sources the coverage of this area are very very thin. It therefore makes far more sense to cover Thompson's more noteworthy work in an article on the general topic of that work, rather than in a biographical article. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk(P) 06:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not pass either WP:SCHOLAR or WP:AUTHOR. If there are independent secondary sources that significantly discuss either Thompson or his works, I have not been able to find them. Blueboar (talk) 11:39, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a short biography. Thompson co-authored a work heavily and extensively criticized by reliable third party sources either as a direct review of the book, or in commentary on creation/development debates. This work, Forbidden Archeology, was a 900 page historical review of anomalous historical findings of various degrees of credibility reported over the last two hundred years. Based on a review of the documented literature, the work presents the possibility of a far greater antiquity for modern forms of human life then currently accepted in contemporary scientific paradigms. The work argues part of the process of acceptance and rejection of evidence involves the human element inherent to doing science. Even some of the work's most vehement critics have acknowledged it's utility as a sociological and historical study of the discipline (ex: Tim Murray (1995) in the British Journal of the History of Science, and Bradley Lepper's review (1996) in Skeptics magazine.) Thompson was also a prolific author who wrote extensively on religion and science, as well as ancient astronomy, cosmology and world view with reference to Eastern philosophy and Gaudiya Vaisnavism, a branch of Hinduism. Further, he did extensive professional scientific work in the fields of computer biological modelling and satellite remote sensing; all work acknowledged by leaders in the field both in secondary and primary sources (most of which is regularly deleted by Thompson's editorial wiki critics.) Thompson's published personal views (in particular - 2004, "Introduction") are anything but "creationist" - rather, they suggest a deep affinity toward John Hedley Brooke's influential "complexity thesis" analyzing the relationship between religion and science. Thompson is an intriguing figure, though one who also elicits emotive reactions from partisans engaged in creation/development debates. (I apologize for not being more familiar with the technical terminology involving this issue on wiki.) Sdmuni108 (talk) 14:28, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

May I offer the following as an antidote to Sdmuni108's Pollyanna interpretation of Forbidden Archaeology:[1]

Besides, many critics had genuine problems with Forbidden Archaeology that went beyond "Darwinism". For all its densely technical discussions of archaeological anomalies, many critics complained that Cremo and Thompson bombarded readers with abundantly useless data. For example, FA devotes 400 pages to analyzing anomalous stone tools depicted in obscure literature over the past 150 years. Worse, these specimens no longer exist. So FA compensated by providing page after page of drawings taken from their original sources. But in his reprinted review on page 103, Kenneth Feder frets that these illustrations are absolutely useless because it is impossible to determine whether these Paleolithic tools are drawn to scale or accurately rendered.

I would also point out that, outside this piece of Vedic Creationism, coauthored with Cremo, Sdmuni108 offers no third party citations to support notability of Thompson's work -- implicitly acknowledging my point that Thompson is only notable for this material. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk(P) 14:50, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ai carumba - no one disagrees the FA project is the most notable feature of the entry. It attracted severe criticism, much arguably deserved - no argument. While it touched upon a lot of sensitivities in a notable way, not all the criticism, even from some of the most severe critics, was entirely dismissive. It is what it is. The rest of the article; right now it is primarily supporting bio info that is easily referenced. Nonetheless, there was most certainly other third party sourced information (Zygon, Hinduism Today) concerning Thompson, all consistently deleted. There were also ~~notable~~ significant primary source materials that could be worth consideration, though all were quickly (and rather patronizingly) dismissed on technical grounds. That honestly appears to me where the issue currently stands. Sdmuni108 (talk) 18:09, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"notable primary source material" is an oxymoron under Wikipedia WP:Notability guidelines. And I'm unaware of reliable third-party sources being removed from the article. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk(P) 18:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In response to these retroactive additions: yes I admit I forgot the Hinduism Today review -- all two sentences of it ("significant coverage"? I don't think so!) As to Zygon, the Henry review is still in the article -- in the 'Further reading' section -- all that was deleted was your vacuous 'I liked the book' summary of it. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk(P) 18:19, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for any distracting cross talk on my part. There were also challenges and deletions regarding the prominent British evolutionist, J. Maynard Smith, favorable, if not enthusiastic appraisal of Thompson's conference work, published in Smith's edited volume, Organizational Constraints on the Dynamics of Evolution (1990). Currently this work is listed in the bibliography. In addition, I recently found a favorable 3rd party reference to the quality of Thompson's (Sadaputa dasa) scientific work in an otherwise generally critical volume. The title of the academically published book is, Belief Transformations: Some Aspects of the Relationship Between Science and Religion in TM & Iskcon (Oxford UK: Aarphus University Press, 1996) pg 209, ISBN 8772884215. The author brought samples of Thompson's work to physicists at the prestigious Niel Bohr's Institute in Denmark for assessment. Thompson has multiple listings in the index. Sdmuni108 (talk) 20:42, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or merge The article has little merit as a stand alone article. The only notability appears to be from some criticism he has received for a book and a tv appearance. IRWolfie- (talk) 20:47, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete; non-notable. There are some content problems too. bobrayner (talk) 22:50, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No impact on mainstream scholarship. Xxanthippe (talk) 00:10, 25 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

in apparent conflict to what appears to be our current consensus on a lack of scholarly attention....

3rd party references #1 - Thompson, religion & science

The following quotations are from: Mikael Rothstein, Belief Transformations: Some Aspects of the Relationship Between Science and Religion in Transcendental Meditation (TM) and the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), (Oxford: Aarphus University Press, 1996). These are favorable comments.

Rothstein is Associate Professor at the Department of History of Religions at the Department of Cross-Cultural and Regional Studies at the University of Copenhagen. He has a short Danish wiki bio.

His 1996 work reports that Sadaputa dasa (Richard Thompson) is a "dominating figure" and "leading person" in ISKCON exploring the relationship between science and religion, and "the leading figure" researching ancient Vedic cosmography and astronomy. Within an extended discussion, Rothstein specifically devotes eight pages to Thompson's ancient cosmology work.

According to Rothstein:

"ISKCON's dominating figure in science, Sadaputa dasa, write about 'Science: The Vedic View' in nearly every issue of ISKCON's bimonthly Back to Godhead Magazine. . . . In discussing ISKCON's relationship to science these articles are excellent starting points, and as Sadaputa dasa is the leading person in this field of work in ISKCON, it is necessary to focus attention on his contributions" (126).

"The judgement of ordinary scientists is well known to Sadaputa dasa" (131).

"The most striking examples of the development and use of higher dimensional science is the work of Sadaputa dasa (Richard L. Thompson), the leading figure in ISKCON's work in this respect. 'Holding a Ph.D. in mathematics, Sadputa dasa has written extensively on scientific subjects from [that] perspective . . . . In Sadaputa dasa's book {Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy] the higher dimentional level of science is, among other things, exemplified through the quantum theory of physicist Niels Bohr" (122)

"In order to appraise Sadaputa dasa's scientific competence, I have shown a substantial part of his production to a leading physicist at the Niels Bohr Institute of the University of Copenhagen. The scholarly judgement was in favour of Sadaputa dasa. His work was considered competent, although the physicist emphasized that he himself did not share the conclusions. As a matter of fact scholars at the Niels Bohr Institute were willing to meet with Sadaputa dasa for scholarly purposes." (209, fn11)