Ok you won: never more contribute by me in dalmatian articles ok? I'm not a sock, so thanks me for house of cerva and stop bother me or accusing me i'm not interested any more in YOUR influenced pages.
Another edit war
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Recent refactoring
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Personal attack
Nuujinn has requested that you remove recent personal attacks.
I am concerned about the tone of this post (third paragraph), and this, which I regard as a personal attack directed at Nuujinn. You also state: "And should you proceed with it regardless I reserve the right to list all historians I can find that make no mention of Karchmar's theories." This kind of threat is contrary to our terms of discussion and both it and the attack demonstrably violate WP:ARBMAC. Consider this a warning. I suggest that you remove the paragraph in question, apologize to Nuujinn and move on. The discussion had been proceeding well until this, I hope that you will continue in a more positive and constructive vein. Sunray (talk) 22:15, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I view your continued dispute of use of Karchmar as a source here, despite requests by other editors and myself to support your claims, and my subsequent request to cease the discussion, as disruptive and a violation of WP:ARBMAC. Consider this a warning. If you believe I am mistaken and wish to continue with this assertion about Karchmar, you may, in accordance with the "terms of discussion" (#6) on the talk page, present your case at WP:RSN. Sunray (talk) 16:35, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Quite simply, I am not disputing the use of Karchmar as a source - and that is blatantly obvious from every single one of my posts.
Sunray, your liberal interpretation of what constitutes "disruption" may not be shared by other people. Especially since it now apparently extends to discussing, on a Wikipedia talkpage, the possibility of attributing an author to a disputed theory. With that in mind, Sunray, a question (and please do not be evasive): does a mediator require the consent of the discussion participants to assume that role? Or can an admin simply arrive at a talkpage and proclaim himself the mediator (after 15 months of previous mediation on the same issue without resolution of any sort)? --DIREKTOR(TALK) 10:25, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I note that you are continuing to discuss Karchmar, despite my request to cease. You are also continuing to side track the discussion by going on about "arguments from ignorance" (which you have repeated three times). You have exceeded the three posts per day limit (Terms of Discussion). Please stop now. No more posts today. When you come back, please find another topic besides Karchmar. Stick to content. Sunray (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I was not going to write any more posts today Sunray, but I suggest you seriously reevaluate whether you have the authority to forbid users to discuss this or that (content-related) subject on Wikipedia talkpages, under threats of sanctions no less. ARBMAC does not stretch so far. I think you are taking this mediator thing too far and too personally.
The current discussion is on the best way to include a particular claim by Karchmar which is disputed in other sources. I shall not stop discussing this on your "orders", as you are not authorized to give any, even were you recognized in your role as self-proclaimed "mediator". And you are not. I find your most recent threats and orders, completely detached from any Wikipedia policy, quite assuming and offensive indeed. I have not done anything. And you may rest assured I will not take any sanction sitting down. --DIREKTOR(TALK) 16:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
DIREKTOR everybody - including you - agreed to a set of rules about discussions in order to avoid the long, unsourced, pointless and repetitive arguments that characterize these Balkans articles. (The new draft was not unlocked until this was done). You made a series of extreme, unsourced statements about the reliability of a source (Karchmar) for which, despite repeated requests, you have failed to provide any supporting evidence. The ensuing "discussion" took up pages and pages of text and included you repeatedly ignoring requests for sources and making offensive personal remarks about other editors which impugned their integrity and basic understanding. Other editors have wasted time and effort hunting evidence relevant to these supposedly well known views on Karchmar. The net result is that you do not appear to stand by those rather extreme claims. Why were they made? Why have we all had to waste this time and effort on this? Your method of laying down the law in repetitive, patronising and aggressive statements in which you claim you are backed by sources which you then fail to produce (a procedure you are also currently following on the Nedic's Serbia naming issue) is not acceptable and isn't going to work any more. That is why the discussion on the Mihailovic page is taking place under agreed rules and that is why people keep reminding you of ARBMAC sanctions. Please start taking these issues seriously if you wish to continue editing articles on this topic.Fainitesbarleyscribs 17:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fainites, you simply did not bother to read my posts in any detail. And neither did Sunray, considering the fact that he thought I was lobbying for Karchmar's removal. I made it clear, continuously and repeatedly, that my position is NOT to exclude Karchmar, and that my request to have this particular claim of his attributed to him in the text is based on objective data from peer review and other sources - not my own opinion. The fact that he's known in general as a pro-Chetnik source, is something I wanted to let all of you know. But I am an educated person, Fainites, and I certainly don't expect anyone to take my word or his "reputation" as a reason to disregard him as a source. If you want confirmation of Karchmar's reputation, here's a response to Wikipedia's Draža Mihailović article from the Srebrenica genocide blog. He does have that reputation, and I wanted to inform other participants of it - I did not and do not consider that grounds for his removal.
As for the above, I am not disputing the rules themselves, I don't know why you're going on about that. I do, however, refuse flat out to stop discussing the best way to address the disagreement between Karchmar and other sources. Sunray quite unambiguously "ordered" me to stop discussing any subject related to Karchmar on pain of sanctions - for no good reason and without any connection to either Wiki policy or The Ground Rules - on grounds that he will consider such discussion as "disruptive". How can you defend that, honestly? --DIREKTOR(TALK) 19:08, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
DIREKTOR I think you need to read your posts in detail. Your explanation here does not hold water. The most important rule is that pertaining to sources. Please make an effort to avoid factual statements that are unsourced. It's a huge waste of everybody's time and efforts. Please also avoid insulting editors who dare to disagree with you. It won't wash. Enough.Fainitesbarleyscribs 20:58, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh for.. I did not insult anyone. --DIREKTOR(TALK) 21:06, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
DIREKTOR we have had this discussion before where other people see insults where you claim there are none. Has it occured to you that you might be missing something? I thought characterising Nuujiins position as "teaching the controversy" insulting - largely because that was obviously nonsense. Also - the PA that Sunray removed where you accused Nuujinn of "bias" and hand-picking Tomasevich and then you linked the word "logic" to argument from ignorance. There is a pattern of making extreme allegedly factual claims, denigrating sources produced by others and then personalising the discussion when asked to back up your assertions. This isn't about breaches of WP:CIV or all that stuff. It's about disruption by derailing discussions. Another recent example is when Pannonian produced 4 perfectly straightforward sources referring to a puppet (or similar) state to then be repeatedly accused by you of "quote fishing" and "quote mining". Had he referenced a bunch of nationalist blogs you would have had a point. You cannot simply attack and bully off everyone who disagrees with you as if they were all nationalist SPI's or IPs. People are using serious sources and their arguments deserve serious consideration. Aside from which, your general tone is extremely patronising.Fainitesbarleyscribs 21:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Direktor, regarding your comment about my "authority" as a moderator: Mediators and moderators have limited authority over participants. They can make observations and they can make requests--both of which I have done frequently in your case. As to sanctioning someone with ARBMAC: That wouldn't be the role of a moderator (which is not to say that the appropriate authority won't do that). Sunray (talk) 00:52, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I understand that, I have been around for a while. I was referring to your authority as an admin, i.e. whether you as an admin have the authority to forbid the discussion of a particular topic - under threat of declaring it "disruptive". I am also more than aware of a moderators very limited, shall we say "powers", a fact that might lend context to my stance in several issues. --DIREKTOR(TALK) 01:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I try to call them as I see them. I'm not infallible in that, but I do work at it. Sunray (talk) 01:17, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please read my posts, Sunray. I may be annoying and abrasive (granted), but I'm not all that unreasonable and I generally do base my position on something verifiable or other. It doesn't make me feel good when the both of you just assume these sort of things. Only Nuujinn understands me.. :D --DIREKTOR(TALK) 01:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I do read your posts (and you will note that I do address issues raised by you in my responses). I often wonder if you read and think about what others are saying to you, though. I note that you frequently repeat yourself. Is that not simply the restatement of a point of view? You don't need to answer, but I do suggest that you think about it. A different approach would be to address what others are saying in response to you (rather than merely restating your point). Sunray (talk) 01:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Non-productive remarks
In recent discussions at Talk:Draža_Mihailović/ethnic_conflict_drafts, participants have been making comments on the two proposals. In several cases, when another participant has made a comment that is contrary to your point of view, you make dismissive or disparaging remarks about them (examples [1], [2], [3]). This approach is unproductive and, frankly, unlikely to convince anyone to your case. Would you please cease from making such personal comments? Sunray (talk) 20:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Sunray, but I'm a grown boy and I am capable of judging the "productiveness" of my own posts. You calling for a "vote" is the silliest thing I've seen yet: even if this were some sort of popularity contest, everyone (including you) knows in advance what each user will say. I was merely pointing that out. Similarly, if I were to notify some Bosniak users of what's going on as opposed to Serbian or of Serbian descent, I can also tell you in advance what they will say. --DIREKTOR(TALK) 20:58, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, just a remark. I am not sure about the nationality of BoDu, but I know for sure JJG is not Serbian neither Serbian descent, JJG is just a WWII passionate. Resumingly, only I am Serb. However, you and PRODUCER are Croats, so I don´t see how you claim some "ethnic" inferiority for your case. Where are those Serbs that you claim that have been opposing you? FkpCascais (talk) 04:38, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Direktor: My only further observation is that you take no responsibility for your behaviour. That is, IMHO, unfortunate. Sunray (talk) 20:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Talkback
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Talkback
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Talkback
Hello, Director. You have new messages at WhiteWriter's talk page. Message added 16:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]
ARBMAC
DIREKTOR this has gone on too long. Your recent activities on Draza Mihailovic (including the draft page), Serbia under German occupation and Chetniks can no longer be tolerated. I am imposing a topic ban on all Balkans articles and talkpages, broadly construed, under ARBMAC. This is for WP:DISRUPT, WP:TEND, WP:OWN and WP:POV. There are also constant breaches of WP:CIV and WP:NPA. Thse latter two alone are not the prime reason for this action although your constant scornful, insulting and arrogant mode of discourse undoubtedly contributes to the disruptive effect.
Primarily the behaviours consist of;
making extreme assertions about other editors sources yet repeatedly failing to support these assertions. (Recent examples, Karchmar, Serbia under German occupation. Older example on Stepinac).
making extreme and definite statements, argued and repeated at great length, whilst failing to provide supporting sources despite repeated requests. (Recent example, Serbia as puppet or rump state.)
repeatedly misrepresenting other editors positions and then arguing at great, disruptive, TLDR length against straw man positions. (recent example, Panonian. Older example, FkpCascais and collaboration).
attacking and insulting other editors who ask for explanations of your dismissal of sources, sources or call into question your activities or edits.(Recent example, Panonians map, Serbia under german occupation).
assuming and claiming that any editors who disagree with you either simply do not understand your point (which is then repeatedly "explained") or are deliberately misinterpreting sources or otherwise acting in bad faith.
claiming that other editors are only editing in accordance with their ethnicity, even when that ethnicity is neither apparent or known.(Recent example, Mihailovic conflict drafts issue).
Aggressive reverting to enforce your POV, plus threats to revert - report - if other editors disgaree with your edits.
Misrepresentation of sources and sourcing issues, frequently followed by aggressive and insulting posts if your version is not accepted (Recent examples, Panonians map, Cohen on Chetniks, Karchmar)
arguing the same issues over and over again, regardless of consensus or the lack of any further source or information.
You have often been asked to strike remarks insulting or impugning the integrity of other editors but rarely do so, refusing to accept that such remarks could ever be a personal attack. Another example of an entirely ad hominem approach is on the Serbia under German occupation page. This tendency to relentlessly pursue an ad hominem approach when challenged sours and derails discussions and is extremely disruptive. You are now, on the Mihailovic draft page resorting to accusing another editor of "deliberate misrepresentation" over the interpretation of a source and implying that all other editors involved prefer another editors draft to yours because they are all Serbs.
DIREKTOR, you simply do not seem to be able to cope with disagreement or challenge in any way. Apart from the rare recent example over the meaning of "puppet state", (kudos for that) your normal modus operandi is to assume that any one who disagrees with you is either too stupid to understand, and they then becomes the subject of repeated scornful and patronising explanations, or has an ulterior motive and is presumably acting in bad faith. If neither of these approaches convinces everybody you become aggressive and threatening and edit war. Many attempts have been made to discuss these issues with you to little or no effect. In the circumstances, your continuing to edit in this difficult area has become untenable until such time as you can demonstrate an understanding of collaborative editing.
I am therefore imposing a topic ban on all Balkans articles and talkpages, broadly construed, for 6 months. No doubt you will wish to appeal this which you may do to me, the administrators noticeboard or ArbMac, as before.Fainitesbarleyscribs 10:14, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are personally involved in this discussion and are blocking me because I still oppose the position of you and your friends there, never mind the eloquent, fake excuses above. Not to mention that you personally dislike me (by your own admission) and would like to get rid of me. And I hope you will note give me any of that "oh I'm a mediator there". You're not. I'm sick and tired of being hounded by you on every issue of every discussion I get into, Fainites, and I won't stand for this. --DIREKTOR(TALK) 20:04, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
