Talk:StG 44

Naming?

It appears most literature and actual ordnance reports of the Third Reich use a space in the model designations, i.e. MP 44, StG 44 etc. Which would make sense since the full title also provides a space between the type classification and the model year (Maschinenpistole 43, not Maschinenpistole43). Koalorka (talk) 00:52, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

AK & MP44

AK are development from Sudaev' AS-44. In 1943, Soviet format M43 cartridge, after modified Mosin cartridge (Model M1942). Early M43 is 7,62x41 cartridge. In 1944, 3 types of AS-44 joined to conbat, LMG-assault rifle-and semi automatic rifle. In 1944, 1945, AS-44 modified in some prototype. Unfortunately, Sudaev fell severely ill in 1945 and died next year before finalizing his design. Before AK adopted in 1949, more one hundred prototype of dozens engineer are testing in M43 cartridge, example Tokarev , Bulkin...

MP-44 = machine pistol = pistole= short fire arm. AK is rifle = long fire arm. Germany machine rifle program is MKb-35, died before 1938. MKb-35= maschinen karabine model 1935=short and full automatic rifle, 2 prototype and some modifier to 1938, use GECO 7,92x40 cartridge.

First Assault rifle in the World is Fedorov Avtomat, 1911. This rifle is service from WWI to Soviet-Finland war. In 1915-1917 era, 3200 gun serviced in war (Russia-Romania). After October 1917, Fedorov Avtomat is first machine gun made by Soviet, manufacturing in Kovrov. In after 1922 era, Fedorov Avtomat change to Mossin cartridge, is a LMG, Fedorov-Degtriarev LMG. Fedorov-Degtriarev LMG are change by DP in 1924-1927.

Not a assault rifle

The STG 44/MP 44 should not be considered an assault rifle but rather a machine pistol, or a storm rifle. When the idea was presented to Hitler himself in 1942 he declared it to revolutionary. The gun was modified from its original state to fit as a machine pistol. Despite this weapons selective fire, and range it was not produced to operate as a rifle. Also it should be noted that Hitler made it very clear that he felt the idea was to revolutionary. Many make the arguement that the term Storm Rifle really means assault rifle in modern terms but also note the MP 40 was a storm rifle and it is cleary not an assault rifle. Using that term alone is not enough to back the Stg 44 as an assault rifle, and if they orginaly submited the gun as an assault rifle how could it stay as one after it was changed to fit another category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.1.47 (talk) 19:40, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.24.181.180 (talk) 12:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Simple, the weapon wasn't changed, they changed the name so they could get funding meant for submachine guns. The idea was not presented to Hitler and declared too revolutionary, he merely said no new rifles, so they changed the name to get funding (not unlike governmental/political spending). And sturmgewehr while literally translated as "storm rifle", is better translated as "assault rifle", the whole class name comes from rifles that share many of the characteristics of the StG 44. Also, the MP 40 wasn't an assault rifle or storm rifle or whatever you choose to call the class, it was a submachine gun (although the German word for submachine gun also translates as "machine pistol".--LWF (talk) 02:16, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

"submachine gun" ? is nick of Thompson SMG - English, German word is MP.

For the 189th time now, It is this simple bureaucratic name change that is so greatly confusing you. They could have called the Walther P38 the "Maschinenpistole 38" to get around politics, does that mean it is a submachine gun? No! It is still a pistol no matter what they call it. The Stg 44 is, according to the entire rest of the world, an assault rifle. If you think we should call it a machine pistol, you'll have to convince the rest of the world before it gets on wikipedia. Good luck with that. — DP5 02:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

pistole ? PP2000=Maschinenpistole http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg61-e.htm . hand pistole and SMG, all these are pistole.

The East Germans actually redesignated the StG 44 as the "MPi.44," not because they viewed it as a submachine gun - they also referred to the AK-47 and AKM as the MPiK and MPiKM. There is no doubt that the name Sturmgewehr still had the National Socialist war propaganda connotation. Twalls (talk) 16:30, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

they also referred to the AK-47 and AKM as the MPiK and MPiKM == spam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.190.69.14 (talk) 05:10, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The Stg 44 shows all characteristics of an assault rifle:

-selective fire (semi- and fully-automatic) -the round which is used (7,92x33 // medium sized, in comparison to a short pistol round or a longer rifle round) -curved mag, which is a characteristic one can see at most of the assault rifles of today.

....hence: IT IS AN ASSAULT-RIFLE.

--62.154.195.115 (talk) 11:49, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Considered by many

OK, according to WP:PEACOCK we are here to show, not to tell. The intro already says that it is an assault rifle and that it was the first of its kind, adding "it was considered by many to be the first modern assault rifle" straight after these statements is a peacock term, is redundant, and also introduces the question: "who are these many?". If you say it is explained in the article, then it is doubly redundant. Saying that a particular historian "considered it to be the first modern assault rifle" would be fine though. Brutaldeluxe (talk) 00:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Ed Ezell, Ian Hogg, Chris Bishop, John Weeks, Vincent DiMaio, David Westwood, and WH Smith to name a few. No, it's not redundant, it's an important distinction to make. The other alternative is to say that "It WAS the first modern assault rifle" which would be true, however there is enough dissent to qualify the statement with the phrase, "Considered by many". --Nukes4Tots (talk) 01:21, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I always considered it to be the first. Should we change it to be "many historians (or one of those you mentioned) consider it to be the first", followed by a reference, then?

WH Smith? That's a newsagent. Brutaldeluxe (talk) 01:33, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Google is your friend: [1] --Nukes4Tots (talk) 01:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

WH Smiths.It was weak joke that backfired. Chances are I read something by him, but since my books are spread between three houses, bit hard to check (I don't own three house, that's why they're all over the place). Brutaldeluxe (talk) 02:15, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Postwar Use

Given the Soviet propensity of dumping stocks of captured German weapons into places like Vietnam, I'm curious if the StG 44 ever saw any use in Indochina in the hands of the Viet Cong? Does anyone know?--172.190.133.25 (talk) 20:28, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

An untruthful story —Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.190.69.14 (talk) 05:25, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Good question. I don't know much about Soviet supply to Viet Nam at that time. It is known that the Viet Minh before first scavenged what the Japanese, French, and Americans had sent over or left behind. There is anecdotal usage of WWII German small arms in the hands of ex-German Legionnaires in Indochina, and they certainly left arms behind. Manhurin P-38s (manufactured in Germany in the French-occupied zone after the war) were issued to the French Foreign Legion and perhaps some Kar98s and Mp40s in addition to your standard French weapons (MAS rifles, MAB pistols, MAT smgs). As long as there were supplies of ammunition for these weapons, I'm sure they saw later use by the VC. Twalls (talk) 06:55, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

One of the reference links is outdated and should be replaced with this as HZA Kulmbach has changed their websites: http://www.hza-kulmbach.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110&Itemid=117&lang=en — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.75.215.27 (talk) 06:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)