Talk:Living Things (Linkin Park album)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: User:Sergecross73 moved it at 19:09, 16 April 2012‎ -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:53, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

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Linkin Park's fifth studio album → Living Things (Linkin Park album) – Since everyone knows that the album is called "Living Things" and most of the details have been released, being released on June 26, and coverart released, I think the move to the Album's actual name is now necessary.RazorEyeEdits (talk) 06:06, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, why isn't it moved yet? The name is officially confirmed. --Gbuvn (talk) 10:22, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

In fact. RazorEyeEdits, you never listen me. When I complete puzzle, I was contacted by Mike himself that congrats me and said me that Living Things is the official title of the album. Thanks him, I received instantanealy the song when I complete the puzzle. --SuperVirtual (talk) 12:30, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

The move protection is going to expire at 1901 today. At that point, the page can be moved. This discussion won't even be needed. Calabe1992 15:19, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Release dates and regions

So, I know in video game releated Wikipedia articles, we keep it so we only list major region's release dates. (North America, Europe, etc.) Not every little deviation in every little country, like Poland or Switzerland. Are things handled the same for music/album related articles? If so, we need to revise some of the dates/listings... Sergecross73 msg me 12:55, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

It's usually handled like here. --Gbuvn (talk) 15:01, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I have added a release history section and table. Sections of the table still need filling out, and references need to be added. See example on filling out table. The1337gamer (talk) 12:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Honda civic tour

tour dates - link. The1337gamer (talk) 14:16, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Genre

So, with a band/album like this, there will no doubt be all sorts of arguing over genre. There's all sorts of tinkering with various labels already. The hidden note says something along the lines of "Don't change without discussion, the album's not even out yet." While I agree in theory, how exactly did we come up with the starting point that we're telling people not to alter? Were they from sources or something? I think we first need a discussion showing a consensus on where the genre came from, then tell people not to change it unless there's further discussion.

So, as a starting point, does anyone have any reliable sources making any claim to the album's genre? (If possible, by someone not in the band. In general, it's hard for artists to be unbiased from their own work, it's best to get info from reliable third parties.) Sergecross73 msg me 16:19, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

So, does anyone have any thoughts on this. I did some research, and couldn't find a clear cut label, just things like "mixing of sounds" and "not nu-metal". Perhaps this is a sign all genre should be removed, or something vague like "rock" or "alternative rock" should be the only one, until a reliable source says otherwise... Sergecross73 msg me 00:47, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I think the best option is simply removing the genres altogether and waiting until a reliable source describe the album's genre. In the meantime, we only know that "Burn It Down" is an electronic rock song, with a rapped verse. Nite-Sirk (talk) 01:07, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The genre is Linkin Park, as always. 98.166.113.77 (talk) 23:26, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Chances are that we won't get reliable sources with a genre until the album come out (or is very close) and reviews are published. I think it would be best to leave it blank until then. DanielDPeterson + talk 00:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm puzzled by the IP's comment, but I agree with DanielDPeterson. Sergecross73 msg me 01:44, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

To clarify my previous statement, Linkin Park has said themselves that they did not want to be defined as any particular genre, but rather have people be able to listen to their music and instead of identifying it as rock, metal, alternative, et al., they would listen to it and say "I know that sound, that's Linkin Park." I can't find any official reference to it, but it was on their Frat Party at the Pankake Festival DVD, and here is a thread on their forums from 7 years ago where someone else references it in the 2nd post. http://www.linkinparkforums.com/archive/index.php?t-8272.html 98.166.113.77 (talk) 16:42, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

That's fine, lots of bands say that. Billy Corgan once said he wanted Smashing Pumpkins to be identified as American Gothic, which is pretty much meaningless in the world of music genre. But that's not helpful to the general reader, who may not be familiar with the band, so it's not used. That's why we tend to use pre-established genre from reliable third party sources, who can make an unbiased, conventional description, for those unfamiliar. Sergecross73 msg me 16:52, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I fully understand and respect Wikipedia protocol and would never expect or attempt to have the album's genre listed as "Linkin Park", I simply found a conversation about the genre of a Linkin Park album ironically amusing. However, since this is a discussion about Linkin Park and not just music genres in general, I'd like to differentiate between trying to define a new genre and trying to avert definition altogether. With Hybrid Theory, as well as Meteora albeit to a lesser extent, Linkin Park sought to make a sound that didn't fit the description of any particular music genre, but in doing so they inadvertently defined themselves to a genre, regardless of whether or not it had been predefined or named. So from Minutes to Midnight onward they strove to create something new and different from their past works (e.g. they used the sound of keys jingling on 'Given Up'), but still with the same feel and spirit of the band. (This is something they said themselves; admittedly I have no idea where/when, but it was likely related to the release of Minutes to Midnight.) Thus, the "genre" of Linkin Park will always be a mixture of several different styles of music (although it's generally some type of rock) which will not be consistent between albums and even tracks ('When They Come for Me' and 'The Messenger', both from A Thousand Suns, are wildly different types of music), and therefore will often not be something that has been previously defined or named, although it may end up very similar. All of this is why I made the comment "The genre is Linkin Park," since due to the very nature of the band discussions of genre beyond 'rock' are quite difficult, largely inaccurate, and relatively moot unless it's done on a track-by-track basis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.113.77 (talk) 19:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

• I was wondering can we use this source for genre? Allmusic Reza ^(Let'sTalk) 17:16, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

In my experience, some editors are accepting of using any genre that Allmusic throws out, while others don't like their random genre/style listing on the side of the article, but allow for genre's given in the source's actually paragraph. Me personally, I support any of it, until/unless serious opposition arises for it. (Especially since it seems so few sources are willing to label it anything, as far as I can tell...) Sergecross73 msg me 17:27, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The source used recently added, calling it electronic rock and alternative rock, seems reliable too. Sergecross73 msg me 14:54, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Good Reza ^(Let'sTalk) 21:58, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Pop rock perhaps? because Pop metal is listed as one of the genres on allmusic — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey (talk • contribs) 03:13, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that tag is especially helpful over what is already there, which already outlines it pretty good, and the source doesn't really say "Pop rock" outright either, so I'd be against that... Sergecross73 msg me 16:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Leak

Do not add information to the article about the album leaking, unless you have a reliable source. (ie not forum posts or torrent sites, do NOT post those. Legitimate sources. Sergecross73 msg me 14:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

It was streamed on iTunes for a few hours yesterday.[1] --Gbuvn (talk) 15:18, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Then it shouldn't be hard to find a reliable source to explain that in the article then. But that link looks like it's just a messageboard post by a user/admin though... Sergecross73 msg me 15:43, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

It was accidently, so you won't find any official news for the streaming. LPAssociation or LPlive, the biggest fan communities of LP, are the best sources for such news. --Gbuvn (talk) 17:34, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

BTW, here is the link. [2], but as I said, it doesnt work anymore. --Gbuvn (talk) 17:40, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Nothing about leaks should be added unless there is notable consequence or action taken, see here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Album_article_style_guide#Release.2C_promotion.2C_marketing. - The1337gamer (talk) 17:53, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. I've gotten the page semi-protected for a little bit in the meantime, to keep IP's from continually adding it... Sergecross73 msg me 23:01, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Track listing

What happened to the page? The tracks are gone and messed up.

It's fine now. Must have been a temporary mistake that was cleaned up pretty quickly... Sergecross73 msg me 14:25, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Delson's vocals/Shinoda's horns in track list

People keep on adding and removing this. I'm against having it on there; I don't doubt it's true, but usually notes like this are reserved for people outside of the band itself contributing. Thoughts? Precedents I'm unaware of? Sergecross73 msg me 16:39, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

It's noted in the booklet like this. --Gbuvn (talk) 17:35, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

So it's literally listed like this in the booklet in the tracklist? Not just something someone took from the credits and applied to a tracklist? (Don't have the album myself, so I can't confirm.) Sergecross73 msg me 17:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

No, you're right, it's only in the credits, not in the tracklist. --Gbuvn (talk) 17:54, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n633/davyjones01/LinkinPark-LivingThings-Back.jpg --Gbuvn (talk) 17:55, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

If that's the case, then it probably doesn't belong on the track list here either...It should probably just go in the personnel section... Sergecross73 msg me 22:24, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I personally believe that since WB or LP (or whoever printed the book) took the time to credit them in the album's booklet like that, we should also credit them the same here. A Thousand Suns also did this sort of thing. JDC808 (talk) 20:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, someone keeps wanting to change the time of Lies Greed Misery as well as the album. I own the album and the time for LGM is 2:27 and the album is 36:59. Someone keeps changing LGM to 2:26 and the album to 36:58. Grant it, it's only one second, but it's not the correct time. JDC808 (talk) 20:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

It deserves to be credited, yes, but not on the track listing. That sort of detail belongs in the personnel section, where it currently is credited. Information is usually only mentioned in the track list if it's from a person/party outside of the band. A Thousand Suns is actually exactly what I'm describing; it credits the third party speeches sampled in the track listing, but when some odd band member is playing a instrument they don't typically play, it's relegated to the personnell section. Sergecross73 msg me 20:36, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

In regards to the track time, the issue you're describing is a common point of argument in Wikipedia music articles. Different music players round up or down in track time sometimes. So, hypothetically, lets say LGM's track time is 2 minutes, 26.5 seconds. One person's cd player may round it up to 2:37, while another person's iPhone rounds it down to 2:36. Either one is acceptable, and it's a waste of time to argue over such a minute detail. Sergecross73 msg me 20:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Living things is number one in United states!

Living things beat maroon 5 for the top spot on the billboard 200. So United states needs to be added to the charts section. Here is a link for confirmation. http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.33.43 (talk) 04:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't represent the official Billboard Charts. --Gbuvn (talk) 11:57, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Remove singles chart positions?

If not, please import all chart positions from Burn It Down (Linkin Park song) plus Lost in the Echo & In My Remains. And you want to list the UK rock charts too, there are much more charted songs from there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gbuvn (talk • contribs) 11:18, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

All the previous articles of Linkin Park albums list singles charts, there is no reason not to for this article. Maybe someone or I should change the table format to make it similar to previous Linkin Park articles for example: A_Thousand_Suns#Singles_2. - The1337gamer (talk) 11:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, do that. My problem was just that the list isn't complete, and the charts seem to be randomly chosen.--Gbuvn (talk) 14:43, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Living Things (Linkin Park album)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Living Things (Linkin Park album)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "AUT":

• From Fort Minor: "Austrian Record Chart". austriancharts.at. Retrieved 2009-02-19.
• From A Thousand Suns: "Austria Top 40". Ö3 Austria Top 40. Retrieved January 29, 2011.
• From In the End: "Austrian Chart". charts.orf.at. Retrieved 2008-06-24.

Reference named "BEL":

• From A Thousand Suns: "Belgian Singles Chart". Ultratop. Retrieved January 29, 2011.
• From Minutes to Midnight (album): "Belgian Singles Chart". ultratop.be. Retrieved 2008-06-24.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 06:12, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Individual song articles

So, as a reminder, there's been a lot of articles popping up for individual songs from this album. Please note that, per WP:NSONGS, while not charting is usually a strong indicator that a song shouldn't have an article, just because a song charts doesn't automatically warrant it having it's own article.

Please note, per NSONGS:

Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been independently released as a recording by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable. Notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; articles unlikely ever to grow beyond stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album.

Just throwing that out there, as I imagine people who may be making these unnecessary article may look around this article first... Sergecross73 msg me 14:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

There should be a non-singles charting positions chart. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.201.246.178 (talk) 07:15, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes. The chart positions of In My Remains (GER #83, FRA #151) need to be there. And what would you think of adding UK Rock to the table? --Gbuvn (talk) 11:10, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I see no problem with that, unless there's some sort of precedent I'm unaware of. My issue is just these pointless, tiny articles that consist of "Song X is the nth track from the album. It placed 99th on the Y Charts". Sergecross73 msg me 12:26, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Lies Greed Misery and Powerless

Sorry, but Lies Greed Misery and Powerless aren't singles? lies Greed Misery has an official lyrics video, like Lost in the Echo, that is a single. So why Lies Greed Misery aren't in the singles area? And Powerless is Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter theme, I think, so it wouldn't make it a single? I may be wrong, and sorry my English:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.22.253.213 (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

What you are describing does not make a song a "single". They're just songs that happen to have Youtube videos by the band, or appear in movies. That doesn't make them a single. Singles are usually released separately from the album, and sent to be played on the radio or MTV type video playing stations. See Single (music). Sergecross73 msg me 14:46, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. But I didn't know that Lost In The Echo was released separately from the album, and LGM was played first time in a radio and I've read it's a single. Sorry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.113.253.175 (talk) 21:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

It is a little harder to determine singles, in this day and age with the internet and iTunes and whatnot, but a lot of the time it really just comes down to the band, their management, or a reliable source calling is a "single". Sergecross73 msg me 11:22, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Personnel

"Mike Shinoda – vocals, rhythm guitar, keyboard, piano, synth, strings and horns on 'Castle of Glass'" - did he play all of those instruments on that specific song? If not, perhaps some clarification is in order. 97.71.28.234 (talk) 03:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

No, just the "strings and horns" part applies to Castle of Glass. Sergecross73 msg me 11:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

It does look like it can be confusing, perhaps use semi-colons instead of commas? JDC808 (talk) 18:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

CASTLE OF GLASS

A Wikipedia page should be created for Castle Of Glass because a music video has already been shot, and it charted on a couple of charts. Although there's no confirmation yet, Castle Of Glass will probably be the third single off Living Things. More information here: http://lpassociation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37366 , http://lpassociation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37370 , http://lpassociation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37371 , http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1691042/linkin-park-medal-of-honor-warfighter-castle-of-glass.jhtml and http://www.mtv.com/videos/news/822011/linkin-park-teams-with-medal-of-honor-to-build-castle-of-glass.jhtml . All the information is correct, LPA is the official fansite of Linkin Park, and other news are from MTV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.178.221.161 (talk) 09:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Fansites are not reliable sources. When Castle of Glass is a notable enough song on its own, single or not, it will get a page. DanielDPeterson + talk 03:08, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Composers.

This page says the Chester and Mike, even though all the other albums were written as a group. I find this a little hard to believe, and the source on Allmusic lists "Bennington, Shinoda, and Linkin Park". Does anybody know which is right? DanielDPeterson + talk 03:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)