User talk:Jayjg

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Talkback

Hello, Jayjg. You have new messages at Ignocrates's talk page.
Message added Ignocrates (talk) 00:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks in advance. Ignocrates (talk) 00:34, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I think WP:STALK and WP:HARASS probably apply, specifically to Ignocrates. He seems to be doing little if anything by way of constructive edits since I warned him about his habit of abusing others on the talk pages of other editors, specifically in this case Dougweller, and honestly all I see is the same sort of behavior which led me to think that he himself probably deserves to be taken to ANI, particularly considering that just about the only thing he seems to be doing lately is, basically, stalking me. John Carter (talk) 00:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but you are the one following me around and commenting on my edits. As to being "taken to ANI", I suggest you be careful what you wish for. Ignocrates (talk) 01:37, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Ignocrates, the evidence rather clearly proves you wrong. Your recent dialogue with Pass a Method, for instance, only came after I and others raised questions about that editor's basic competence, as can be seen per that editor's talk page and the history of you and I there. Also, honestly, if one were to review the recent pattern of edits, I think it is clear that since I warned you on Dougweller's talk page about your almost hysterical claims that In ictu oculi should be taken to ANI for matters which in no way merit such attention, you have, basically, been all but silent. I realize that since you have been warned about your clearly unacceptable conduct more than once on this matter, you, basically, are forced to engage in harrasment such as this, and I do think that if this matter were to be brought before ANI, the probable outcome would be that you, whose recent history has been little if anything beyond making accusations, are the one far more likely to be in some way sanctioned for misconduct. I gave you some lenience in the past, because, as I said before, you have, at least until the recent past, been at least once in a while in behavior other than harrasment, but that seems to have stopped since the Dougweller warning. I really wonder whether anyone would think that someone whose apparently sole current purpose is to basically make snarky comments about others is really here to contribute to an encyclopedia. And, FWIW, unlike you, I actually am trying to do a few other things around here lately, so I doubt I will notice if you make another basically pointless and less than productive snarky comment as the one above.

BTW, Jayjg, I am working on an article list from the one-volume Wigoder Encyclopedia of Judaism, which might be ready in a week or so. When it is finished, I will probably post a notice to it on the Judaism WikiProject talkpage, and I do think it would be useful if someone who might know the subject better reviewed the list. A lot of the shorter entries seem to be quotes from verses and other sources, and I'm probably not the one to best decide which if any extant article here most clearly and directly relates to it. John Carter (talk) 01:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I've found that commenting about other editors is rarely helpful, even when (rightly or wrongly) I think they richly deserve it. I'm not always perfect at avoiding making such comments, but I try my best. Can I still recommend to everyone that they simply don't mention the other editor at all going forward? I think that will help ease tensions. Jayjg ^(talk) 23:15, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

First, I am more than willing to send you the entirety of the e-mail exchange between Ignocrates and myself, which consisted of three e-mails total, the first in which I tried to be conciliatory to a degree after his retirement, the second of which involved what I did and continue to regard as frankly insane aspersions on myself by him, and the third in which I admit having lost my temper. Since then, and, specifically, since his return from retirement, during which, so far as I can tell from the reasons he gave for his return on his user talk page, he has done little if anything along the lines of the reasons he gave for his return, he has continued to engage in the sort of abusive talk page edits which were so frequent here for a time. At this point, I honestly cannot see that I have any reason to assume good faith of Ignocrates, or, for that matter, to assume even a basic grasp of policies and guidelines if they do not support his promoting his own personal opinions. Also, it is worth noting that just about every comment he has made has been on a page which shows up on my watchlist, and in general I think I have only commented regarding him when I see his name appear as the most recent edit on that list. So, in short, I have not been "stalking," but observing the often problemattic, inflammatory, and irrational conduct of what seems to me to be a committed POV pusher. That is considered acceptable by policies and guidelines. If Ignocrates were to perhaps get over his longstanding greivances against me which seem to be based almost exclusively on his having, basically, lost an argument regarding the content of what seems to have been the only article he had been significantly involved in, and perhaps refrain from the sort of bombastic, irrational, inflammatory, and well silly behavior that he seems to have adopted, particularly regarding me, since then, there wouldn't be a problem. Once in a while he has shown an interest in actually trying to build the encyclopedia in accord with policies and guidelines. Sadly, that seems to be more of the exception than the rule of late. If that were to change, then, certainly, I would have no reason to continue to feel the need to review what seem to me still to be generally problematic edits. Basically, so far as I can see, it's up to him. If he begins to predictably conduct himself according to wikipedia principles, guidelines, and policies, I would have nothing to say about him. As long as he continues to do otherwise, however, I can honestly say that I do see that my monitoring his conduct is more than acceptable as per guidelines and policies. John Carter (talk) 01:43, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

And, as a PS, the Wigoder encyclopedia contained far fewer articles and subarticles than I expected. The list can be found at Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism/Encyclopedic articles. Like I said on its talk page, I acknowledge that I am far less than expert on that subject, so I have no doubt that there are several typos particularly regarding capitalization and other things. But it is at least a start.

P.P.S. Regarding the alleged threats, I think it worth noting that ArbCom and ANI have repeatedly indicated that editors who are, in the opinions of those speaking, not here to contribute to an encyclopedia are potentially eligible for sanctions. Rarely, except apparently when he is so warned, have I seen much if any interest on Ignocrates' part to actually make an effort to build an encyclopedia. Instead, there is, unfortunately, more regularly an attempt to, as with the Jehovah's witnesses some time ago, tell people who are often much better informed on matters than he is what he in his somewhat amusing self-aggrandisment thinks about subjects. Out of control ego coupled with little interest in actually doing anything productive are in general considered a very bad combination, and that seems to be in general an apt description of Iggy except in those instances when he is actually, well, warned. I am not sure that basically advising someone to abide by conduct standards is genrally a threat, except to those who might have never had much interest in abiding by them from the beginning. John Carter (talk) 01:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing I can say that illustrates the ongoing problem more clearly than these last two edits. Ignocrates (talk) 02:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Because a thorough review of the facts, which I welcome from Jayjg or anyone else, would reveal their accuracy. In short, you can't say anything about them because it is hard to deny the reality of your own recent edit history. I regret that you seem to believe that somehow policies and guidelines shouldn't apply to you simply because you can't admit that the great Ovadyah/Ignocrates could ever be wrong, but the evidence seems to bear out at least in my eyes that your reasons for returning to editing are, basically, vindictiveness and an unwillingness, or inability, to deal with a fairly clear and rational application of policies and guidelines. Feel free to check ArbCom and ANI rulings for the phrase "not here to build an encyclopedia" or similar, by the way, and see how often they turn up. And, if at all possible, maybe try to once in a while do something other than engaging in snarky whining? John Carter (talk) 03:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

You don't seem to understand that your own actions could be called into question in an arbitration case due to extreme prejudice, and as a result, your supposed findings of fact may be disregarded as fruit of the poisonous tree. I'll say it one more time - find a way to let go of a dispute that ended almost two years ago, and move on. Ignocrates (talk) 15:49, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

And you don't seem tyo understand that your own actions "notifications" of my apparent bias are in the eyes of I think just about any objective editor clear evidence of an irrational bias on your own part. I believe you have been warned before about WP:HARASS. In fact, yes, I indicated I would take you to ANI for harassment after your ridiculously irrational request to have me desysoped earlier. By your own rather clearly juvenile comments to others, you have shown absolutely no ability to "move on" yourself,. In fact, you seem to be almost irrationally obsessed with denigration. Just as a final warning, I believe I am more than justified under the circumstances that should you continue to engage in such behavior from this point forward, I will be more than justified to start an ArbCom or ANI thread or similar regarding your own conduct. Final warning. John Carter (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

We already have an arbitration case open that was suspended nearly two years ago. If you insist on proceeding, I suggest you start there. But my advice is to let all of this go and move on. Ignocrates (talk) 23:52, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

And since then you have regularly engaged in disparagement of me solely on the basis of, so far as I can tell, widdle baby Iggy not having liked hearing a rational opinion of his own behavior. There is a matter of reality to deal with here, such as your regular use of this page in the interim to engage in any number of irrational attacks. If you want others to "move on," Iggy, maybe the way to start is to, finally, cease your own regular misuse of wikipedia to engage in unfounded personal attacks of others. If you want others to "move on," maybe the best way would be to show that you have matured a little in the interim, something, regrettably, few if any of your recent disparaging comments here and other indicates may have happened. John Carter (talk) 00:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

In the spirit of doing what's best for the encyclopedia, I'm walking away from this talk page discussion. I suggest you do so as well. Ignocrates (talk) 01:14, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

And I also suggest, in the spirit of doing what is best for the encyclopedia, you refrain from any further irrational disparagement of others on user talk pages, other than your own, which seemingly only you care about. At this point I realize that your ego is such that you cannot ever acknowledge that you have ever done anything wrong. However, I stand by my previous final warning regarding your conduct. Should it continue, I believe I have more than sufficient cause to take you to ANI for harrasment. Basically, learn how to behave, and you won't have any further problems. The question, I guess, is whether you can ever learn to do that. Final warning still stands, though. John Carter (talk) 01:40, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

And so it continues unabated...diff Ignocrates (talk) 19:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

And also note the edits which led to it. I am truly very sorry that Ignocrates has never been able to get over the fact that there was and is no particular support in the academic community for either the views of the completely non-notable Ebionite Jewish Community or for the views in Tabor's book, and I realize some truly delusionally self-righteous egomaniacs will never be able to acknowledge that they could ever be less than the perfect persons at least they consider themselves to be. So, I'm really not sure whether there is any chance of this sort of what might be called "hounding" of you, Jayjg, will ever have a chance of ending. John Carter (talk) 19:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Help needed

with an insane vandal posing as an edit warrior, with a myriad of IP addresses, all from Japan. Disrupting Mara Galassi article that I've been trying to improve.--Galassi (talk) 19:59, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I've temporarily semi-protected. There does seem to be duplicate text in the article and in the website link posted - which came first? Jayjg ^(talk) 21:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! The article here, methinks. Not much of a duplicate, just a list of 3-4 items.--Galassi (talk) 21:59, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Could you also keep an eye on Jewish Cossacks? I'm under a topic ban (Ukraine), and there has been some nonsense inserted by an IP there.--Galassi (talk) 20:08, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Notice of WP:AN discussion

Hello Jayjg, this is notification of a WP:AN discussion regarding an editor you have dealt with. The thread is: WP:AN#Community ban for BLP-violating, sock-hopping conspiracy theorist from Hyogo, Japan. Appreciate your input, thanks! Zad68 18:06, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Quote from book "Israel and the Politics of Jewish Identity: The Secular-Religious Impasse" regarding Rabbi Elazar Shach

Hi,

Just wanted to know if you have anything to add/respond to the discussion here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Quote_from_book_.22Israel_and_the_Politics_of_Jewish_Identity:_The_Secular-Religious_Impasse.22_regarding_Rabbi_Elazar_Shach

Yonoson3 (talk) 02:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)