Talk:Penalty (gridiron football)

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Globalization and rename

This article was recently moved from Penalty (American football) to Penalty (gridiron football) in the name of globalizing it. However, but for one mention of Canada in the intro, the text deals exclusively with American football codes. Should this article be returned to its original title, or should the text be globalized? If the latter, the first thing that comes to mind for inclusion is the 25-yard penalty (plus disqualification) for rough play in the CFL. —C.Fred (talk) 04:27, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that would be a good idea. Some other things come to mind: Canadian football is 12 a side, so the references to 12 players resulting in penalties would have to be either qualified or perhaps changed to just a reference to "too many players". Also, Canadian football allows a wider range of motion prior to the snap by the offense. Come to think about it, we should also include rules pertinent to indoor/arena football. Wschart (talk) 23:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Half the Distance

On the paragraph that states:

Most penalties result in replaying the down and moving the ball toward the offending team's end zone. The distance is usually either 5, 10, or 15 yards depending on the penalty. However, such penalties, when enforced, are always capped at half the distance to the offending team's goal line.

Remember when you say always, there is always going to be an exception. In this case, in the NCAA, when there is a pass interference penalty at least 15 yards from the line of scrimmage, the penalty is 15 yards from the line of scrimmage, no matter where the original line of scrimmage was. It is capped at the 2 yard line, not half the distance to the goal. PI in the endzone, where the original line of scrimmage was the 20, would result in the ball being placed at the 5. If the line of scrimmage was at the 16, it would be placed at the 2.

What would be best here? Just say that penalties are generally capped at half the distance maybe? Would a discussion of this specific exception be worth it here? Or perhaps just right after the noted paragraph, state something like The only exception to this is... and then explain the rule. Of course, it gets more complicated in that if the foul is less than 15 yards from the line of scrimmage, the penalty puts the ball at the spot of the foul. I'm not sure what the call is if the PI is behind the line of scrimmage. 67.161.251.32 (talk) 01:00, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Illegal formation

"Fewer than 7 players line up on the line of scrimmage(NFL/High School); more than four players in the backfield (NCAA only)" Maybe that's how there worded in the books for each respective code, but given there are 11 men total, either describes exactly the same situation.Wschart (talk) 00:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not true. It is a foul in high school to line up with six players on the line of scrimmage and four in the backfield (and only ten on the field); I'd have to look at the wording of the NCAA rule to see how that's handled. —C.Fred (talk) 04:21, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Face mask rule change (NCAA)

In 2009, the NCAA changed the rules for facemask penalties: there is NO accidental face mask. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.0.56 (talk) 03:41, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, and the article reflects that. —C.Fred (talk) 04:19, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Illustrations

I find it interesting that no one has created illustrations of each penalty though art or photography. I cannot draw and I don't want my photo on WP, so my taking on the project is unlikely, but somehow I thought with all of the artists on this site this would have been a given. — CobraWiki ^{( jabber | stuff )} 18:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scope check and table formatting

Given that the article now covers all gridiron football, not just varieties played in the US, there need to be some additional columns added:

A column for CFL penalty yardage
A column for Football Canada (amateur) penalty yardage
A second signal column, for where the signal is different (e.g., intentional grounding and chop block)

Further, how do we handle substantially similar penalties with different names, like delay of game v. time count or illegal forward pass v. offside pass? Just list the alternate name in the table?

Here's a worst-case scenario:

Penalty	Description	United States				Canada
		Signal	Yardage			Signal	Yardage
		Signal	NFL	NCAA	HS	Signal	CFL	Football Canada
Delay of game (US, Canada) Time count foul (Canada)	Any action which delays the next play. On offense, this means failing to snap the ball before the play clock reaches zero, which is referred to as a time count foul in Canada. It may also include spiking the ball. On defense, it occurs when a player hinders the offense in hurrying to make the next snap. This happens most often in the last two minutes of a half when the offense is trying to go down the field in a hurry. The defense can also be flagged for a delay of game if a player spikes the ball after the end of a play. On special teams, it happens when the return team runs after signaling for a fair catch, or the defense does not unpile in a timely manner after the play ends.	Upper arms extended out from the body, forearms bent toward the opposite arm, such that the arms lie on top of one another or that each arm touches the opposite shoulder.	5 yards	5 yards	5 yards	Delay of game: arms extended along the side of the body, elbows projecting outward slightly, hands at waist level behind the back Time count foul: one arm extended outward from the body, rotated such that the hand travels a circle about a foot in diameter	Delay of game: 10 yards Time count foul: 5 yards, except in the last three minutes of the half, when it is loss of down on first or second down and 10 yards on third down	Delay of game: 10 yards Time count foul: 5 yards, except in the last three minutes of the half, when it is loss of down on first or second down and 10 yards on third down

Messy, isn't it? —C.Fred (talk) 22:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One ya missed?

Did you miss the "contact above the shoulders" penalty?