User talk:Gloss

List of Survivor (U.S. TV series) contestants

Thanks for your work on adding the sort key and cleaning up the links. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 23:22, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Gogo Dodo - no problem at all! I was surprised it wasn't already sorted like that, being an FL and all. But ah well, there's always work to be done. Gloss • talk 23:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Active

Hey Gloss, it's good to see you active again; it's always nice to see a user return. :) Acalamari 13:52, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Acalamari: Thank you! It's good to be back. I've had a lot of free time lately, so I figured "why not?" Gloss • talk 17:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Survivor related discussion

Re your message: No, I have not looked it over, but I will. I've just been really busy and, well, the past Survivor season has been a little exhausting for me. I promise I will look it over in the next day or two and comment. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:29, 16 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I gave you some feedback. Sorry if my comments are a little scattered. I'm still rather exhausted from everything (I might be a little more coherent in a few days after I decompress from B vs. W). I think it is a good first draft, but I think some of the changes went a little too far. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:12, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re your message: It should probably be a redirect as she has no notability or references outside of Survivor. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 05:26, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The tags I added

Oh sorry if I offended you by tagging that article! I was just doing what I naturally do when I see issues with an article. Thanks for letting me know though :) Survivorfan1995 (talk) 06:34, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With the "outdated" tag, I was referring to the fact that only the tribes from Borneo through Gabon are listed. That's kinda ridiculous that it hasn't been updated since season 17 in 2008! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 06:58, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, okay! Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to blame anything on you. I was just doing what I thought was best for the time being. Keep up all the good work! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 07:05, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Brawn vs. Brains vs. Beauty

That one non-Wikipedian doesn't get it. He wants to start an edit war over the Brawn vs. Brains vs. Beauty subtitle despite the citations. Steelbeard1 (talk) 17:49, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've left them a warning on their talk page about the edit warring. Being that multiple editors have inserted the subtitle and placed reliable sources alongside of it, there's no reason for its' removal. Gloss • talk 17:51, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I reported that edit warring IP. Steelbeard1 (talk) 18:51, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm not sure if they'll be blocked just yet as I gave them a final warning and they haven't edited since. Gloss • talk 18:53, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He's been blocked for 24 hours. Steelbeard1 (talk) 21:30, 18 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

List of Survivor tribes

Hi there! Thanks for adding the references, but is the IMDb really the only source available? According to Wikipedia:External links/Perennial websites#IMDb, it looks like it's usually not ok to cite the IMDb, because it's not considered reliable. Can we find any sources that might be better? Thanks! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 01:19, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: I looked around for better sources, couldn't find anything. While IMDb isn't considered a reliable source for most BLP biography information, it's usually OK for cast information and the like. So it shouldn't be anywhere near a problem having it there until any better sources can be found. Gloss • talk 01:22, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, yeah, I got the rustle feathers joke! You were talking about the thing Hayden said a couple of weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very extroverted, fun type of guy and love to talk as much as anybody. I just didn't want to take the conversation too far beyond encyclopedia-related discussion since that's not what Wikipedia is for. But I am a super fan of Survivor, just to let you know! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 03:59, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's really okay, Wikipedia is nothing without it's users and it's users can't collaborate if they never become friendly with one another, eh? Gloss • talk 04:04, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, you're probably right :) Survivorfan1995 (talk) 04:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the members of the pre-merged tribes also be listed? Some readers might wonder why they're not there :) Survivorfan1995 (talk) .07:55, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: I'm working on it in a sandbox. It's a bit of a task, so it's taken longer than the post-merge tribes but no worries, it's being worked on. Gloss • talk 16:30, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Angie Layton

Outside of Survivor, she has several model titles such as Miss Utah Teen USA 2010 and Miss Utah 2014. Do the Miss USA beauty pageants not make her notable enough for her own article? WP:ONEEVENT shouldn't apply because she is both a model with titles to her name and a contestant of a very notable television show.--Ointment09 (talk) 22:57, 19 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ami Cusack

Are you absolutely sure about redirecting Ami Cusack? She does appear to have some notability beyond Survivor. I'd admit that some contestants really shouldn't have articles, but I'd have kept hers. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 16:52, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: We have a decent amount of contestant articles that violate WP:BLP1E so I've been going through and getting rid of some of them (admittedly, boldly). I personally feel that beyond Survivor, all she has is a few modeling shoots with insufficient source covering (based on some web searches). She was in a playboy shoot but nowhere near the star of her issue, she had a few pictures taken is all. However, if you feel this one should have been kept, we can always revert the changes and open an AfD? Gloss • talk 16:59, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I suppose you could be right about that one. Okay, I've looked through the other articles and the only other ones that definitively should be redirected are Kim Spradlin, Tom Westman, J.T. Thomas (Survivor contestant), Chris Daugherty, Todd Herzog, Sandra Diaz-Twine, and Robert Crowley (Survivor contestant), and Tina Wesson. Jennifer Lyon might be open to debate. Other than that, I think everybody else has some notability. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 18:21, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: I agree with all of those. I'll go get to work. Gloss • talk 19:42, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning all besides Tina and Jennifer, which I will look further into. Gloss • talk 20:04, 20 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I already took care of Kim, so that's one less you'll have to do! I'll help with some of the others too. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 01:00, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see you've already gotten those done! You're way ahead of me here! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 01:03, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tyson Apostol

Hi. Are you sure Tyson shouldn't have his own article? His article was nominated for deletion a couple years back and the result was to keep. I would argue that he does have some notability beyond Survivor as is shown in the article. I just think that the article probably needs some expansion. You think we should get consensus on this one? Survivorfan1995 (talk) 05:13, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you'd like. The only information in the article was on his Survivor experiences so I didn't see much that could have been expanded outside of that. What did you think could have been expanded? Gloss • talk 05:30, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

All of the fame Tyson has received has been from Survivor. Anything else he's done in his life hasn't been notable enough to appear online. Unfortunately appearing on three seasons isn't even enough to pass around WP:BLP1E - he's known for Survivor, any and all important information on his time on Survivor is covered in the three articles on the three seasons he was in. I looked over the AfD from a couple years back and it seems as though the majority of strong arguments were for deletion while the keep arguments were from fans who didn't quite get BLP1E. Gloss • talk 05:42, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, that is a good point. But it makes me wonder why the reviewing admin decided to keep it. But you don't think him being a cyclist or a Mormon missionary also makes him notable? Survivorfan1995 (talk) 05:48, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well there wasn't a clear consensus. In AfDs where there is no consensus, the default is to keep. And I can't say I think those things make him notable. Things you do in your personal life don't make you notable simply because they're out of the ordinary. If he was some kind of cycling champion or there was something significant that occurred while he was a missionary I'd probably have a different opinion. A lot of Survivor contestants are cool things or have done cool things... that's half the reason CBS casts them. But to provide another example, if a contestant was a swimmer outside of their Survivor career, that wouldn't be enough to make them notable. If they competed in swimming competitions or won swimming championships, you know, did anything significant in regards to swimming (or in Tyson's case, cycling), then perhaps they'd have more than just one event to claim notability for. Just doesn't seem to me that this is the case with Tyson. Gloss • talk 06:00, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: - being that Tyson is most notable for his winning season, rather than the seasons where he was eliminated early on, does it make sense to you at all why I had the page redirected to Blood vs. Water instead of the contestants page? Sandra is redirected to the contestants page because she won two seasons, so to avoid picking one, the contestants page is an easy compromise. But being that Tyson is most notable for Blood vs. Water, as he won it, I'd say the best redirect location would be to that season's page. Gloss • talk 19:43, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point, but I think Tyson voting himself out of Heroes vs. Villains (which, by the way, I still think is one of the best moves ever, on Russell's part!!) is still a legendary moment in Survivor history that fans will remember him for. Therefore, the contestants page is probably the best redirect in my opinion. Any second thoughts? Survivorfan1995 (talk) 02:36, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: I'm sure some hardcore fans like yourself will always remember that move... but in the public eye, in terms of notability, he's absolutely best known for his winning season. It's like an actress can do a bunch of memorable movies but once you star in that breakthrough film that sets off your career, that's what people know you for. He had good moments on other seasons but I can't find myself agreeing with the redirect location. I don't mean to sound dramatic, this isn't the end of the world in any way, shape, or form. Gloss • talk 05:38, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I know exactly what you're saying. But do you think if we did move the redirect back to Blood vs Water, that readers could get the impression that this was the only season he was on? Survivorfan1995 (talk) 06:06, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: Luckily the article on Blood vs. Water contains information right in the lead about the season featuring returning players, and the contestants section lists the two seasons Tyson was on right underneath his name. Also, even if they did get the impression he was only on this season, it's not too problematic as he didn't play a key role in either of the other seasons he was on. But I don't think it will be a problem. Gloss • talk 06:10, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Altered speedy deletion rationale: Yousef bkw

Hello Gloss. I am just letting you know that I deleted Yousef bkw, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, under a different criterion from the one you provided, which doesn't fit the page in question. Thank you. Shirt58 (talk) 08:26, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tina Wesson

Do you think that Tina's page should be deleted? Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:45, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Dobbyelf62: I haven't yet gotten around to this one yet but I will check it out today. Initially it does look like it should be redirected but before I redirect an article I'll usually perform some google searches to see if anything besides (in this case) Survivor comes up. If nothing does come up, a redirect is usually the best bet. Gloss • talk 16:48, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Survivor Borneo

Looks good! The same should be done for the other seasons. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 17:14, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Dobbyelf62: Glad you think so! If you'd like or wouldn't mind, feel free to add your input to the discussion (Talk:Survivor (U.S. TV series) so we can keep all of the comments and opinions grouped together! Gloss • talk 17:16, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Blood vs. Water

Hello, Gloss. You have new messages at Katanin's talk page.
Message added 21:05, 27 December 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

Survivor voting history

Hello, I understand your issue with dead space at the end of the page caused by placing the Jury vote table on the next, however by using the "width=100%" function, it bloats smaller tables, such as post-merge voting histories (like in BvW) and jury votes unnecessarily. I have edited the Survivor: Borneo table in a matter that I hope satisfies both of our specifications. If a table doesn't need to be larger, then why do it? I am just confused as to why you want the tables to hit the end. It's one thing to do the opposite, such as splitting up the BvW or Caramoan tables because they're too wide for the page, but making sure that they take up the full width is not something I have yet to grasp. - Katanin (talk) 21:27, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Katanin: Your compromise works fine for me. I'm sorry, it isn't that I'm looking for every table to perfectly hit the end of the page (yes I originally did so, but it wasn't something I feel or felt strongly about), but when there is room at the end of the voting table I just feel like we can put the Jury Vote table next to it...with the goal being to remove the overwhelming amount of dead space between the Jury Vote and the end of the page. Also, I don't see a problem with bloating the smaller tables a bit but if it is an issue, that's okay. Gloss • talk 21:42, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Another note.. I really like this improvement. Thanks! Gloss • talk 21:44, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Those links

Re your message: This is not the first time CBS has reorganized the structure of their website. The episode summaries are under the More drop down on the Survivor website, then you can use the triangles on the top to change seasons. After clicking one of the seasons, their naming convention for the URLs is fairly obvious. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 07:05, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re your message: Sorry about the notifications. I thought I was avoiding that by changing the edit summary, but I see that notifications isn't based upon that (I see what it is doing now). If it wasn't the notifications, I would have swamped your watchlist. =) -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 07:22, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More redirects

Do Bobby Jon, Kelly W and Colleen really need their own page? I don't see any reason to keep these. Phillip and Jenna Lyon might not need one either. What are your thoughts? Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:32, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Dobbyelf62: I believe Colleen has done some work outside of Survivor. Jenn Lyon I believe was also involved in something, I'll need to check on that. The others are likely good to be redirected. I've been considering them for a while and I'll do some more research to find any missing information soon, that could determine their full notability. Gloss • talk 16:35, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

True, it does say that Colleen has done some acting outside of Survivor. The only problem is that none of this is sourced, none of it! All of these articles are poorly sourced as they really didn't do anything outside of Survivor. If someone mentioned Colleen's name, the first thing that would come to your mind would be a survivor contestant, not an actor. Same goes for Jenn. There's probably a survivor wiki that has information on these people anyways. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:45, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Dobbyelf62: Well that is where we editors come in! If the article is unsourced the first step is to look for sources. Only when none can be found do I usually begin to fully question the individual's (lack of) notability. So you're free to look around yourself if you'd like, though I'm sure I'll get around to those articles sooner or later. And unfortunately, Survivor Wiki is not a reliable source so taking any information from them won't benefit us. Gloss • talk 16:48, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

True, Colleen has done some acting outside of Survivor, so I'll be sure to source that sooner or later. I'll have to get to Jenn later. I am we'll aware that survivor wiki isn't reliable (in fact most wikis aren't). I was just saying that if people really wanted to, they could easily just check there. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:58, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Dobbyelf62: Sorry, misunderstood your original comment then! Gloss • talk 17:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Re:WikiCup

Hi- are you properly back? You're welcome to take part, if you want! We've got 110 signed up for this year already but we'll get some more over the next few weeks. I don't know how much you've been following the Cup, but "bonus points" for highly important articles are the flavour of the month right now- the finalists are generally producing articles on more significant topics to get the big scores. Good to hear from you! J Milburn (talk) 17:07, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Phillip Sheppard

Are you sure Phillip is only notable for one thing? I mean, he does have a novel that appears to have been pretty successful. Do you think we should create an article about the novel instead? Just thought I'd ask. Oh, and by the way, keep up all the good work on these Survivor articles! I was a bit skeptical about it at first, but you're really doing a good job! Happy New Year! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 20:47, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: I absolutely think an article about the novel would work best. I appreciate the feedback and I'm glad the changes are sitting well with you! Gloss • talk 20:54, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh and of course, Happy New Year to you as well! Gloss • talk 21:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you happen to be familiar with his novel? I could create an article about it, but I've never been into books a whole lot (I usually hated reading when I was in school). But Phillip is one of my favorite Survivor players ever, so his book might be interesting to check out. I've just generally preferred to watch movies and TV instead of reading. Oh, one more thing, I finally expanded my user page so feel free to check that out if you want! Survivorfan1995 (talk) 21:20, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not familiar with it at all, and I do have a mental list of things I'm planning to work on.. which that article would go at the bottom of. I'm sure one of us or someone will get to it eventually. But in the mean time, any information on Phillip can be found in the articles of the two seasons he played. Gloss • talk 21:24, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixes

Hey, thanks for those minor fixes on Survior Tocantins! Those were really dumb mistakes on my part :) Survivorfan1995 (talk) 22:30, 31 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Survivorfan1995: No problem. Gloss • talk 00:13, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A personalized New Year greeting

Hi Gloss, Happy New Year! I know I said it before, but yes, it's good that you're back. :) Best. Acalamari 13:56, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Acalamari: Thanks for the smile :) Happy New Year to you as well! Gloss • talk 14:02, 1 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jennifer Lyon

Well, as I was removing links to other redirected pages, I started to wonder exactly why an article with no links to it needed to be redirected instead of being just deleted. With no links to it, who would even come across the page to be redirected to Survivor: Palau in the first place? I just assumed that if I blanked the page, an admin would come by and delete the article altogether. But if you think it's better the other way, I have no problem with that. I just thought I'd try something different and see how well it went over. We could discuss it if you like. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 02:33, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess you're right; redirecting probably is better. But about the deletion thing, I have known blanking a page to result in deletion. I once created a category that was wrongly named; I just blanked that page and created a new category and the page was gone within hours. I just wanted to see if the same thing would work on an article I didn't create. But I guess we're both in trouble now. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 02:48, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

True, but the same thing happened with Tyson. We redirected his article, despite a prior consensus to keep. Besides, Jenn's article clearly need to go; I have no idea why they decided to keep it anyway. Everybody said "delete".Survivorfan1995 (talk) 03:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that link. I have no idea why I didn't see that 2nd discussion before. It looks like her article might, just might could be kept, but it's definitely gonna need to be expanded to include these other important aspects of her life.

Okay, I sincerely apologize. I should have known better. Thanks. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 04:36, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Admin notice board discussion

Uh-oh. Have u seen the latest? Looks like we may have been doing something wrong after all. Survivorfan1995 (talk) 03:25, 3 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

James Avery Age

On the talk page of the James Avery (actor) article you have said that reliable sources have verified he was 68, born 1945. But that source of information has only come from the publicist who said he was 68 which many media have used. However public records [1] show his date of birth as 27 Nov 1948 making 65. I would consider this to be the most reliable source. Before his death and before his publicist announced his age as 68 when he died sources online had his date of birth as 1948. I would say that the publicist has been in error. 79.97.208.89 (talk) 03:32, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Also to just add the following pdf [2] which shows details of an interview with him which shows his year of birth being 1948 79.97.208.89 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]