Talk:Korean tea ceremony

March 2005

Initial background to this article began in March 17th, 2005. The obscurity of the Korean Tea Ceremony to the west has generally led Europeans and westerners to believe that Japan originated this ceremony, instead of refining and enhancing it to meet Japanese needs. The natural aspects of the Korean tea ceremony will be given attention in this article by way of defining those differences.

The entry here will follow the similar approach of other entries in the wikipedia so comparative studies may be made as it evolves.

Korean tea ceremony to full article exists.

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Tea_Ceremony

Stub note taken out - is this article redundent? --— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.158.92 (talk • contribs)

No. It is not. POofYS Dated 22:38, 21 April 2005.

May 2005

Is it really accurate to call this a tea "ceremony"? It certainly isn't a "ceremony" in the same way that the Japanese tea ceremony is, and I'm not sure it's appropriate to really compare them as such. Exploding Boy 21:42, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Of course it is a tea ceremony. I'd really like to hear your reason to believe otherwise. I think it is time for you and many more to realize that Japanese culture is not particularly unique in an East Asian context. Peace. -Himasaram 10:32, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Peace"? Ironic ending to that message. Neither what is sometimes called "Chinese tea ceremony" nor what is being called "Korean tea ceremony" are really accurately described as such. I'd like to hear your reasons for believing they are. Exploding Boy 18:17, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Right, I admit that English information on the Korean Way of Tea on the Web is lackluster at best. It was revived after hundreds of years of obscurity after WWII and has only recently began getting attention, so give it some time. What is certain, is that the courts of Korean kings of old (Shilla, Goryo) practiced highly sofisticated forms of Tea Ceremony. As for contemporary Korean Tea Ceremony, it appears that the "Panyaro Institute" is holding courses on the subject and has been giving formal examinations since 1995, so there apparently are some form of rituals there to be taught. How they measure up to Japanese Chado is yet to be seen. I'm sorry if I my previous post seemed overly aggresive. I just feel that the "Other" nations of East Asia should get a chance to revive and be proud of their traditions without having to be compared to and deemed inferior to Japan at all times. Peace now? -Himasaram 21:35, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How important is the tea ceremony revival at the Panyaro Institute? I ask, in part because I can see that it is a very important part of Brother Anthony of Taize's writings, but how biased is he? Does anyone know about the significance of the institute, when compared to (say) the Myung Won Cultural Foundation?

I think what I'm asking, is is the focus on the Panyaro institute an example of bias?

Also, the restoration of the tea ceremony, seems to be largely based on the 19th century sources, not the earlier pre-17th century ones. Should there be some distinction in the article, between what (little) is known in English about the older ceremonies, and the reconstructed/restored 19-20-21st century ones? Asfridhr (talk) 09:38, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Edit war

hello Party and Phoenix: please talk it out here, about this tea ceremony!Good luck,Super48paul (talk) 08:58, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I accidentally found this article while checikng User:Krusader6's edit history, and she/he contributed the paragraph in question.[1]. Although I do not know anything about tea or history of it, I can see why it became a target of vandalism.

• First the last paragraph of History section is written without any citation, thus it could be a contributor's original research or POV.
• Korean tea culture may have influenced by Japanese one. In fact given the geographic proximity between the two countries, it would be surprising if it wasn't the case. The factual content, however, should be re-written in a more neutral tone. Words like outright or copy can't be considered neutral by all means.
• Lastly, why do we need to mention topics like Taekwondo, Judo, and Kendo in this article? Is there any valid reason for that, except bringing about national pride and more vandalism?

--SSN (talk) 07:02, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

• Seonsaengnim, wow, you are checking my edit history? Really? Vandalism? Why don't you actually research Taekwondo, Yudo, and gumdo, and see that just like "Cha rye," they are straight copies from Japan? I am Korean-American, and am really tired of native Koreans copying and claiming Japanese culture "without citation." My one citation is from Ms. Bishop, whose seminal work has been the foundation of East Asian studies in the West. In her extensive travels throughout Korea, she never once saw TEA, and found it very peculiar, as Tea is ubiquitous throughout the rest of Asia. She also never mentions seeing Martial Arts, or warriors for that matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krusader6 (talk • contribs) 08:30, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Korean Tea ceremonies: Revived or Created?

There has been continued reverts in this article, and I want to discuss about this edit Diff here. So the question here to ask is, I think, "Dose Korean tea ceremony revived or created?"

If we say that the culture have been created recently, then it means the culture never exited on the peninsular. If the culture have been revived, that means it had died down for some period but now it's gaining popularity again. I really don't know Korea during the Joseon Dynasty didn't have any tea drinking culture or not. (Takes time to find a WP:RS for that bit of history is too much for me. But Joseon produced some good quality potteries, which makes me wonder that was raally the case: don't get me wrong. I want to know why, if Josen really didn't have one.)

But even if Chosen dynasty didn't have this tradition, its preceding kingdom Goryeo had a tea drinking culture as the article's history section have documented. The article have used "revived", until it has been changed recently. Diff -- SSN (talk) 08:04, 28 April 2014 (UTC) We are not talking about the act of drinking tea. this article is about tea ceremony. The only "tea ceremony" document before WWII is from Japan. Westerners drink tea as well, but they never claim any type of tea drinking ceremony. Hence, if Korea want sot claim one, it is CREATING, not reviving. Read your sentence above. You speak of tea dinking culture. Not the same as tea ceremony.Krusader6 (talk) 08:43, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Korean tea ceremony and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

The article already contains enough cited statements about a Korean tea ceremony in earlier times to justify the use of "revive" here. @Seonsaengnim: please take care that your checking of Krusader6's edit history does not cross the line into WP:WIKIHOUNDING. @Krusader6: might you be willing to add ISBNs to the other book citations? It's better to do it together with the citation than in a subsequent bulleted list. ISBNs do facilitate source checking. Regards, Stfg (talk) 14:24, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

just for your information

"The people do not, as in Japan and China, raise tea, and even the wealthiest have apparently only recently learned the use of either tea or coffee, which the common people are far too poor to buy." Lillias Horton Underwood, Fifteen Years Among the Top-knots: Or, Life in Korea (1908)

"Tea is not drunk as a common beverage, the people instead of it making use of rice-water and infusions of ginger and orange-peel. The tea-plant seems to grow wild and unappreciated." William Elliot Griffis, Hendrik Hamel, Corea, Without and Within (1885)

"The Coreans drink very little tea, nor do they seem much to care for it, though the better classes use it at times. It is owing to this that the cultivation of the tea shrub is so very much neglected in the country" Ernst Jakob Oppert, A Forbidden Land: voyages to the Corea (1880)

"Tea is not unknown in wealthy homes, but its use is very limited." Charles Dallet, Traditional Korea ‎(1874) --210.143.16.39 (talk) 02:55, 6 July 2015 (UTC)