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Wifes

In the article it says "He had two more sons, Haran, Nahor, and had one daughter, Sarah, by another wife (Genesis 20:12)." So, did he have 2 more sons by the first wife and a daughter by another, or 2 sons and a daughter, all by a different wife than the one he had Abram with? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.64.6.105 (talk) 18:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Azar in Islamic tradition

A similar story is mentioned in the Quran of when Abraham destroyed the Idols of Azar when he was out for some festival and then this lead to the bunring of Abraham and him being saved ...

here is the Quranic source:

021.056 YUSUFALI: He said, "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He Who created them (from nothing): and I am a witness to this (Truth).

021.057 YUSUFALI: "And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs"..

021.058 YUSUFALI: So he broke them to pieces, (all) but the biggest of them, that they might turn (and address themselves) to it.

.......................... 021.065 YUSUFALI: Then were they confounded with shame: (they said), "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!

.......................... 021.068 YUSUFALI: They said, "Burn him and protect your gods, If ye do (anything at all)!"

021.069 YUSUFALI: We said, "O Fire! be thou cool, and (a means of) safety for Abraham!

Moodswingster (talk) 12:13, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

New verses Old

User:PiCo,

I prepared a new updated version of Terah that you undid. This new version had references. Rather than undoing everything I did... could we at least discuss what the problem was so that rather than going backwards we could evolve this page into a good article. This page is even asking for references and for work to be done.

I ask that you reconsider... to kindly put back the page you undid and lets talk about what all the issues are. I want to have good information, so lets work together on this instead of against each other.

Thanks, Jasonasosa (talk) 10:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome to put it back yourself - I don't intend to spend any time on this article. However, just a thought: Please don't use the bible itself as your source - it's the primary source, and the thing we're discussing. (Which means that citing the bible in order to discuss the bible is an exercise in circularity). Find some other sources. Other sources are, of course, pretty hard to come by - Terah isn't a very popular subject among scholars (too obscure). But Thomas Thompson has written about the patriarchal narratives, and I think you might find something in the Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (look under Abraham if there's nothing under Terah). Good luck PiCo (talk) 11:57, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your response. knowing that the original source for this name only comes from the Hebrew Bible itself and that there are no sources anywhere else to justify this person, Terah, most of my references had to be from the scriptures itself...

In trying to figure out what Terah is all about, you can only bring light to him by: 1.the context of the source (chiefly the Hebrew scriptures) that refer to the name, 2. having some understanding of the etymology of the name and surrounding words of that name, 3. having some understanding of the location that surrounds that name.

This is the type of information that I find in dictionaries about Terah, and thats all it is... information. There is no agenda behind this name. Its not like were dealing with some controversial subject... other than Terah's existance. But that is up to the reader to decide whether or not Terah really existed or not, taking into consideration that the only source for Terah ultimatley comes from the Hebrew scriptures. As long as that's established... that the only source for this man, Terah, is from the Hebrew scriptures, then its left up to the reader to decide whether or not its true. We've done our job. We don't need to try and prove or disprove his existance in this article here. That subject belongs somewhere else, like on the mythology page. The only thing here in this article left to talk about now, is what the scriptures say, any scholarly insights, etymologies, and whatever we know about the locations pertaining to Terah. Thats all it is. Jasonasosa (talk) 13:57, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Version 3.0

Rather than reverting it back to my original draft, I started over...

Every tidbit of information presented, other than Jewish and Islamic traditions, has a scriptural reference so that the reader knows exactly where the information originally came from. This is just a starting point, because we have to start somewhere. Jasonasosa (talk) 20:08, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably on the right track. However, just a few points:

You need to give the reader secondary sources - pointing them to the Old Testament is fine in the first section, where you're summarising the information on Terah, because that's available online, but some of your other information in later sections is pretty abstruse, and you should give the reader some books that he can easily look up. Dictionaries of Islam and Judaism should do fine.
Be careful about mixing the Old Testament and the New togetehr as if they were equivalent - that's taking a religious perspective, in which these are both the word of God and therefore equally trustworthy. Wikipedia is a secular website, like it or not, and we have to take a secular approach. That means giving the OT priority and treating the NT as part of Classical Judaism (because the early Christians were also Jews, by and large).
Taking that second point a bit further, maybe a new section is needed in which you can discuss Hellenistic Judaism - I'm pretty sure Terah will appear in Jubilees, Enoch, and other places (not to mention Chronicles).
you might like to look at the Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (available online in google-books) - look under Abraham, which has a very brief discussion of the scholarly approach which saw Terah and the rest6 of Abraham's family as a Mesopotamian god. That approacgh is pretty out of favour these days, but it still gets mentioned by people who don't know any better, and so you might raise it if only to make that point.

By the way, at Joshua 24:2, the passage isn't saying that Terah was a polytheist, it's saying that he "worshipped other gods" - in other words, he didn't worship Yahweh. That might seem like hair-splitting, but it's important for biblical theology - Yahweh only reveals himself for the first time to Abraham, so naturally Terah didn't worship him. Even Abraham doesn't know this god's true name, which is revealed first to Moses. This is central to the theology of the Hebrew bible - Yahweh's revelation is gradual, culminating in his election of David and his line as the eternal kings and guardians of the Temple. (Except of course it doesn't work out - the Temple is destroyed and the Davidic line disappears - that's where modern Judaism begins).

Good luck :). PiCo (talk) 00:44, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good points. Please note, that I've only written up the first section. I did not write up the Jewish or Islamic traditions. I will note your points about the NT... For informational purposes only, I merely mentioned that the name "Terah" appears in NT. I haven't written anything from NT to prove a religous point or an agenda... Since I am not an authority on Jubilees, I opt not to mention where Terah is found there. I will leave that for someone else to expound on as well as the islamic traditions section of which I have no knowledge of. And that is the whole beauty of this... Its building upon... not taking away.

Also, according to the World English Dictionary -

polytheism (ˈpɒlɪθiːˌɪzəm, ˌpɒlɪˈθiːɪzəm) — n

"the worship of or belief in more than one god"

just as you stated... "it's saying that he "worshipped other gods""

This point can only be argued if it were stated 'he worshipped another god'

Jasonasosa (talk) 04:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Need comprehensible dates

If you're putting dates in as AnnoMundi, PLEASE also put them in as BC or BCE. If you don't do this, then it is basically incomprehensible to 99% of the readers of Wikipedia. I have never met anyone in my whole life who has used Anno Mundi. Presumably, if you feel that it is necessary to state Terah's and Abram's dates of birth, etc in AM. then you have good reasons to do so. However, it is very little trouble for you to also put them in a form that the whole world can understand. Thank you.