Talk:Hollow (Bleach)

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Plus?

I have seen "Plus" used alot when talkign about spirits that are not Hollows...where does this comes from? The official manga translates them as "Wholes", which makes alot more sense when they other type of spirit is a "Hollow". I'm not saying "Plus" is incorrect, just that I am confused. I have never seen it said that way before. (I am sorry if my English is not very accurate. It is not my first language.)

They are called Plus in the Japanese manga (i.e. not some Japanese word meaning Plus, but the English word Plus in Japanese letters). We may actually change it to Whole someday, I think it depends on how it will be translated in a future English anime dub (if any). -- Y Ynhockey ^(Talk) Y 04:25, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arrancar?

Who thought of this name? Is it official? If we're going to use something English, I suggest Allankar (the first fan translation). Unless Arrancar is official of course. -- Ynhockey 08:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Allankar doesn't make sense though, considering the Romanji is Arankaru, so why add the extra "l"? Also, Tite uses a lot of Spanish references throughout his works, and this one makes a lot of sense since they did take off their masks, or ripped them off, hence the verb "arrancar". Also, the kanji in their name is 破面 (rip;mask), so it makes a lot of sense that this is what they should be called.-- Shaojian 03:12, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Allankar would be Arankaru in Japanese, so would Alllllllankar. It's the sound that matters, not the writing. However, I don't know Spanish, so if you say that Arrancar means to rip or whatever, I guess it's a logical version. We'll see what Viz chooses to do with it later. -- Ynhockey 10:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps "Ripper" would be at least vaguely accurate, despite being quite corny :P I mean, being corny's never stopped Viz before -- Guest 16:37, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Arrancar is correct, I believe, for the fact that Kubo does use quite a bit of Spanish as far as Hollows in general go.--Rokuwa 20:53, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Original Research

I'm surprised no-one's caught this yet (myself included) but the paragraph

"Given that the closest thing we have yet seen to an arrancar bankai is Ichigo's (he's more 'along the line' from shinigami at one end to hollow at the other than any other character who has yet released bankai) and that Ichigo's bankai, Tensa, is a massive compression of his power rather than the 'normal' shinigami's tremendous expansion then it seems likely that any Arrancar which achieves bankai would also share some compressive element to the ban form, and certainly not the shinigami's large-scale offensive form."

is totally unconfirmed speculation in my opinion. I'm removing it, if someone can give me some references to confirm this idea they can feel free to re-add it. Editors, please be on the lookout for anything else of this nature. --Tjstrf 01:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Most Powerful Menos

This article states that the Vastrode are the strongest Menos and that the Espada are the most powerful fighters in the Menos army. Clearly there is a contradiction here, which somehow has to be dealt with. Perhaps an "except for possibly the _______" clause at the end of each "strongest" statement would do the trick.--123fakestreet

I think the main problem with this article is that it's simply been changed dozens of times (especially by newbies) due to the quick influx of new info in the last chapters. Therefore, we should re-think the entire section about the menos and come up with an explanation which is both non-contradictory and makes no unbased assumptions. I'll work on it when I can (probably tomorrow afternoon). -- Ynhockey 20:54, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Día de Muertos

Anyone else feel that the Day of the Dead should be mentioned as a possible source of inspiration? The similarities between the grotesque Hollow masks and those used in the Mexican celebration sure warrant at least a passing reference, along with the computer game Grim Fandango as well if we could get away with it :) -- Adahn 07:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome to add this information as long as you make it clear that it's not a fact that it was an inspiration, but a likely speculation. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 17:17, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Portuguese

An anon added "and Portuguese" after "Spanish" in one case in this article. That isn't incorrect, but the languages are so similar in many cases that I think it goes without saying, so I reverted it. --Anaraug 16:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"In the prototype of Bleach hollows retain human features."

Someone wrote, "In the prototype of Bleach hollows retain human features.", but I'm not sure exactly what they mean, and it doesn't exactly sound verifiable. For now, I'm chaging the wording, but I'll google around for it, and delete it if I can't find it. --Anaraug 04:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of a Bleach prototype. The guy might be thinking about the appearence of D. Roy really early on in a single page after the Grand Fisher ran off.--12.218.150.28 02:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- I think that the editor was referring to early sketches or notes that Tite Kubo made before putting the story together, but I'm not sure where they found out such information. It would be nice if someone properly sourced it. --Anaraug 02:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cero

I added the fact that Hollow Ichigo was able to fire a cero in chapter 222. Also, why shouldn't that paragraph stating Menos' powers be changed into an outline instead? I think it's easier to understand if each attack like Negation and Cero are explained individually like how the Menos classes are divided.--Chemicalist 15:56, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it would be better to explain negation and cero in a bulleted list form rather than how it is now. If I don't change it to that, you are welcome to do so. Also, please keep in mind the English naming order (Ichigo Kurosaki, not Kurosaki Ichigo) used on Wikipedia, and use the reference format instead of in chapter XXX of the manga. (Don't forget to include the page with the chapter.) -- Template:Country data flagicon Ynhockey ^(Talk) 16:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Great. I re-added the fact about Ichigo shooting a cero and fixed the reference. --Chemicalist 19:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I still don't understand how the part about Ichigo is important, but if you insist. -- Template:Country data flagicon Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It says that it's unknown whether normal hollows can use cero, but Ichigo si neither a menos nor an arrancar, so it implies that a normal hollow can use it depending on how strong they are. --Chemicalist 08:50, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it is possible that his inner hollow is a natural-born menos class hollow. It says a Gillian is usually created by a combination of weaker hollows, but no such assertation is made about the higher ranks or even that all Gillian are formed that way. We'll just have to wait and see. --tjstrf 09:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arrancar - Espada

Since the chapters are revealing the Espadas little by little now (Grimmjow and most recently Yammi was revealed to be one too) I think the article be made a list when more have been revealed just like in the hollow abilities. i'm waiting for other people's opinions.--Chemicalist 20:29, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I think the only list should be in Characters in Bleach series, all the info that's repeated here should be removed, unless it's important for this particular article. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Colored markings on faces

It's been shown that other arrancar's face markings(particularly Yammy's) are red instead of blue like what is stated in the article. I'm editing that part. .--Chemicalist , 3 July 2006 (UTC):

Merger

Eek! This is terrible. Wasn't it decided to merge into Characters in Bleach series? In any case, the whole point of the merger was to eliminate all unnecessary data. I will soon trim each character, but IMO it was unwise to just dump all the info info this article. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:25, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No kidding. Actually, even if we insert them back into the main character article, it will still be a substantial length increase. I was planning on proposing we move them all to Hollow characters in Bleach series (do something similar with the other races as well) this afternoon (I'm on lunch break right now) and trimming them there. How does that sound? --tjstrf 19:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I just read through the first two characters and realized how useless most of the info was. I have therefore removed it (and will likely do the same for those other arrancar). If you disagree, we can surely reach a middle ground. Hollow characters in Bleach series sounds like a good idea, even though it is a great excuse for anons to insert blow-by-blow info on each arrancar once a new chapter comes out. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you on removing the padding, as well as the uselessness of having blow-by-blow information added every week to every character. (Especially since it is generally speculative and often incompletely refactored after the new new info comes out). I'm not sure about the name though, my suggestion is a bit wordy, and also sounds like we are describing "characters who have no innards in the Bleach series" (which I suppose we are, if by innards we mean hearts, it still sounds dumb though.) --tjstrf 20:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that most of the information was futile, but I don't think this radical deletion was very right. Every information left was concerning just the appearance of the Character and what their Zanpakutou can do. So, I took the liberty to readd (or just add) some of the deleted information, I think they are, in fact, relevant. But I still think would be better create a "Minor Arrancar" article in "Characters in Bleach" category. So we could leave the relevant information without making this article immense and we could keep the images. - Access Timeco 23:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is the reason I nominated those articles for deletion, there just isn't much useful information for these characters. I don't think even their apprearance should be elaborated on (just a quick explanation will suffice). The zanpakuto however is important. By the way, please don't take offense in that I reverted your edit, most of that information was very POVish and some speculative. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 23:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but about the zanpakuto information, there is the Zanpakutou article and all the information about them are there. About the information about the personalitys, I think they are more than POV, considering they are vital to any character profile, but it's ok. I deleted Margera's image 'cause doesn't make sense a image of him and any of the other characters (specially if we think that, until this time, just Nakim had a participation inferior to Margera's one) - Access Timeco 23:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most fans seem to think Wonderwice will be more important than the others. If he survives this invasion, he'll deserve an article, so we shouldn't have the image deleted just yet. --tjstrf 00:56, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The image will not be deleated. Just will not be on the article. And what Wanderweiss can be is unsure, even if almost sure. As far as we know, Luppi can still be alive - Hiken in bf said the word Yammy used can be translated as dead of defeated or a bunch of other things -, but we can't take that as base. = Access Timeco 01:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderwice

I have concluded that Wonderwice is a logical equivalent to Wandaawaisu. I know I did this unilaterally, so feel free to bash this conclusion. However, Wanderweiss is wrong because it would be Wandaavaisu at best, possibly even Wondaawaisu (er -> aa is also British). -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:54, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objections, but then I don't read Japanese either. It's not like any of our other names reflect common usage among the fans, and no one seems to complain. --tjstrf 20:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like this spelling. The character appears to be a german/dutch/swedish stereotype with the blond hair and freckles, so the german Wanderweiss seems more appropriate. Probably Kubo didn't know/remember that germans pronounce w as v with such a spelling. Most Americans don't even know/remember. - Wickning1 15:05, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We can always move it once they spell his name out for us on a title page. --tjstrf 15:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okie guys, even though the raw manga pages are not out yet... Just want to give you guys a heads up, that it is all but confirmed Wonderwice is NOT an Espada (not ranked top-10, but of course, he might still be strong).-- Finestela 18:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where? I've seen three different spoilers so far, and I still haven't didn't even see any mention of him. Nemu 19:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have yet to see that either. Still, it won't be the first time we were wrong... and we weren't the only ones who thought he was an Espada either. Source? --tjstrf 19:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's true. The spoiler picture shows the ten of them and he isn't there. Ulquiorra seems to be number one or five(though it's still speculation). Nemu 19:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the long-awaited page of our gathering of Espadas: Click Here -- Finestela 23:32, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK then, I guess that's sufficient confirmation. (Also, I can barely wait for the scan on this one.) --tjstrf 01:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Recovering on them the intellect

Access Timeco: What does that mean? -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 00:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, didn't saw that. What I mean is talking about power levels is not very good, once it's more POV. And we know that the Gillian Arrancar have different power levels: Edorado fought even with Ikkaku even in Bankai, Renji said that his fight with Il Forte would be even with he has fought 100% since the beginning... but D-Roy seems weaker. So, instead of talking about power, I believe is better mention the fact that the Gillian regain a human level intelect after become an Arrancar (remember that the Gillian are almost irracional beings, originaly). - Access Timeco 14:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't make sense. We don't know whether gillian-level arrancar were actually menos grande before they became arrancar. They may have been regular hollows that rose to gillian level when ripping their masks. This also makes sense because clearly gillian-level arrancar are weaker than shinigami lieutenants and therefore they were probably much weaker as hollows. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other Information about Arrancar Classes

I have caught up with chapter 242 of the manga. Two brand-new, non-Espada, arrancar are giving chase to Ichigo, Chad, and Uryu while at Hueco Mundo.

I noticed that those two aforementioned arrancar possess more hollow-looking traits and forms which is addressed by Ichigo.

From what Urahara told to Uryu, Uryu explains to Ichigo that the more an arrancar resembles a human form, the higher its class and power. Guido MTY 14:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm quoting the exact same text from a user at the AnimeSuki forums that provided more insight information about the Arrancar from the Japanese source which will be in itallics.

basically the info ishida got from urahara was: 1. The 5 arrancars grimmjow first brought to the real world were a mixture of gillian and ajukaru (which is kinda wrong since aizen said they were all gillians after they were wiped out.) 2. After a meno's mask is removed, if its outer appearance resembles that of a human 100%, then it's a vastorode. (and as this explanation is taking place we see images of ulquiorra, yammi and edorad.) 3. The classes of arrancars looking more hollow than human are simply low intelligence minions.

Source. AnimeSuki forums Guido MTY 15:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Point #2 is incorrect. It actually says that every class of menos can become humanoid but only with the vastoroode there is a 100% chance. I have also read the RAW and it says the same thing as far as I understand, so it can't be a Manga7 error. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to 245...

According to the chapter 245 spoiler texts, Hollows do not actually use their inner energy to fight, but rather energy they ingest, whether from human souls or the environment. --tjstrf 05:42, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't found this note anywhere. AFAIK it says that surrounding energy helps them fight but they also use their own energy. Wasn't there a hollow at some point which applies spiritual pressure on someone? -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 12:20, 29 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The note (from Ishida, BTW) actually mentions that lower (read: non-human) hollows can survive on spiritual energy alone, without having to feed on souls. There is no mention of the relationship between their diet and combat ability, though. Euhsung 17:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]