Talk:Push-up

Pushup vs Pressup

Shouldn't this be under Pushup? Anecodtally, I live in the US and I've never heard them called this. Moreover, Google has more hits for pushups by a factor of 5, and a lot of the pressup hits are on .co.uk sites. If common useage is the measuring stick, this article should be under pushups. -Unknown

Yes, in the UK they're known predominantly as "press ups", in the US as "push ups", so "common usage" varies depending on where you live. Wikipedia policy is generally not to choose sides on Brit vs American English, and to use whatever the first editor used for an article. — Matt Crypto 12:21, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's my policy to choose sides out of pure grammatical logic. I think it's better to call a bench press a pushup than a pressup. Think of it. 'Up'. The object you're pushing/pressing against is the ground. Are you pushing the ground? No, you can't, the ground is stationary. Instead, you are pressing against the ground, and lifting yourself up through the effort. Actually, I've sort of lost track, but I tend to go with seniority, press also fits with bench press. You've never really heard of a bench push, right? Tyciol 08:30, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the picture. Marines do not do press ups they do push ups.

I would argue, tongue-in-cheek, that the US version "Push-up" should have dominance because I'm not convinced that many British people actually do exercise. We might be fat, but we're strong fat people here in the States. --Bobak 22:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite sources. :) --Haddock420 14:18, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Include the girl pushup?

should someone mention the girl pushup?

I presume you mean the wimpy "knees on the ground" variant? Don't see why not — go for it. It would be good if we could find a slightly less informal name for it as well, if one exists. ;o) Why are girls so weedy? (Disclaimer: my fiancee can do more pressups than me. My only excuse is that she weighs less. I think I'll be quiet now.) — Matt Crypto 20:05, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've been told by a kickboxing instructor that the girl's press-up isn't due to weediness, but is recommended because women's bodies are different and regular press ups can cause damage to the hip/abductor muscles in women. anyone know any more about this?

This is an excellent idea, methods of shifting less of one's bodyweight to the arms should be noted. As well, methods such as elevating the feet, the placement of weights on one's body, resistance bands and so forth Tyciol 08:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Knuckle pushup & Two-finger pushup

The article DIDn't mention pushups using the knuckles, which hurt more, NOR the two-finger pushup as Bruce Lee do.

Now it does. However, the Wikipedian is strongly urged to contribute any additional information to the article, not hide it in the talk pages which nearly no reader uses, those are for cases when one needs to consult with previous contributors, as asking clarifications, challenging accuracy... Rest assured, your contribution is likely to be watched (accounts generate automatical watchlists) and edited if deemed in need of work. Fastifex 10:19, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, this needs a more extensive variety of pushups listed. I plan on adding different sections for the varying hand placements (already mentioned) and also the varying hand alignments such as knuckles, fingertips, wrists, paralletes, etc. If no one objects. I just had to redirect fingertip pushup here and found it wanting. Tyciol 08:23, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Which muscles are exercised by pressups?

which muscles are exercised by press ups? it mentions triceps in alternate version, but not which ones are normally exercised. -Unknown

Triceps are always used, no matter what, they are the prime movers. The pectorals, as in the bench press, are highly involved (moreso in wider grips) and unlike the bench, the abdomen to stabilize the torso Tyciol 08:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It varies widely depending on the position of the hands relative to eachother and the orientation of the fingers (tilting them inwards emphasizes tricep and pectoral, pointing them directly outwards emphasizes more of the upper back - between your shoulder blades - and elbows). Also the muscles/tendons that connect the pectorals to the shoulders get a LOT of work from just about any type of push up. 195.145.150.173 19:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pushup picture

Like in the old exercise article, the picture of the marines has again been altered without explanation. I have repetetively explained the criticism, in that the central figure is not holding a proper pushup. Because of this, I have reverted the change. I agree that a proper pushup should be displayed, and be affirmative. If so, please find a different picture, as this picture is not a good display of it. Tyciol 13:38, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't wish to be too contrary, but who defines a "proper" press-up? I think it is accurate to say he is performing press-ups. He may have poor form, but the word "attempting" is awkward -- it could even be read as slightly mocking (not that I think you meant it that way). Perhaps we could use something like "Marines performing push-ups. (Note: it is generally considered to be poor form to round the back while performing the exercise)" (if the latter is true, of course). — Matt Crypto 22:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proper form is proper form, I wouldn't put a picture of a guy with his heels in the air under a squat picture. I don't mean for it to be derisive, the guy on the left is doing it perfectly, it's just the central guy who screws it up. I wish I knew which pics were authorized for use on Wikipedia, might be able to find a better one. Tyciol 18:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The central marine is not a recruit (he's a private first class according to the caption) and is said to be calling out the pushups. Perhaps he is doing this on behalf of everyone else? If this is the case, then it's disingenuous to claim he's holding an improper form. A less confusing picture might be in order. Simoes 00:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe one of the pictures on this site?

Comment: The US AirForce defines a push-up as elbow lock-out[straight] to 90 degree bend and straight again. I believe this correctly describes the essence of a push-up. Whether your back is bowed slightly one way or another is irrelevant. After all the excellent video-clip of the Hindu push-up shows extreme and deliberate motion in this regard. A perfectly straight back may look more aesthetically pleasing to some but there is no physiologic basis to recommend it as 'proper' form. In fact, it is normal [and better biomechanics] to have some lumbar lordosis whether standing or doing push-ups. Ask any spine surgeon who fuses backs -- a straight lumbar spine leads to a very bad result. I believe one 'bad form' point that should be avoided: do not let your body drop such that your upper arms rise behind your chest. Letting your upper arms angle backwards can place undue strain on the shoulder leading to impingement and joint pain.

Tests

Just added some basic test values for push-ups :) --Judas Iscariot 09:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where did you get these figures? — Matt Crypto 09:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved it here for now, pending a source (see WP:V). — Matt Crypto 23:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Press-ups are to be done with a straight back and to be lowered until one's head falls within six inches of the ground. These values are how many repetitions are done in a minute. These gradings are for men of the primary age(15-30):

< 20 - Weak

21-30 - Acceptable

31-40 - Good

41-50 - Very good

>51 Excellent

I am going to remove the new "civilian" charts. They are only based on the University of Buffalo's Physical Fitness Test. I hardly think that one University's physical fitness test should apply to all people. In addition, the grading levels are way to easy to achieve and are subpar. A better chart would be one of the US Government's Physical Fitness Test for High Schools. REscano 07:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Back stress

I've been a chubby guy all my life until a few months ago when I said enough is enough and started exercising a lot and controlled exactly what I eat. Things are going pretty well (I seem to have the ability to gain muscle very fast) and now I'm finally able to do correct pushups for the first time. But here's the thing: at about 5-10 pushups my spine really starts to hurt in the abdomen area and I'm forced to stop. My upper body muscles could take a lot more but it feels like my spine will snap. I didn't find any information about what kind of stress pushups put on the back and spine in the article so I'm wondering if such info should be included.

Pushup Picture

The picture of the Marines doing/attempting pushups seems to be causing problems. Since he's not doing the pushup correctly, then he is merely attempting it. Perhaps, we could simply find another uncopyrighted image of someone doing a pushup to avoid the confusion. Zepheus 22:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we currently say that he's doing a press-up with what's typically considered to be poor form. Pending a better picture, what's wrong with that? I don't really buy this definition that doing an exercise with poor form means you aren't actually doing the exercise; it's a little like saying that someone singing out of tune isn't really singing, but only attempting to sing. — Matt Crypto 23:39, 27 April 2006 (UTC)\[reply]

That's an excellent idea! I should have thought of the 'poor form' thing a long time ago, would have saved me a lot of edit wars over the silly thing. Tyciol 14:31, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That would be nice. On a page about singing. Here is a picture of Lindsay Lohan attempting to sing. I don't buy it either. I guess we should just find a better picture to use. - — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zepheus (talk • contribs)

Some Complaints

Name: Noone actually calls push ups press ups, its ridiculous to have them under this title simply because it was the original one chosen.

Are you trolling, or just ignorant? — Matt Crypto 17:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Calm down, what are you getting upset about? Ok, "noone" was an exaggeration, but "push up" is a far more common term in the UK than "press up" is in the US. And what about other english speaking countries, do they get a say? Canada and Australia dont use "press up" either. -Superfrog

Yeah, it was the "noone" and "ridiculous". Sorry to have been grumpy, but there's a certain type of person, typically from the US, who presumes that if they haven't heard of it in their country, then it either doesn't exist or isn't important. — Matt Crypto 06:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Picture: Why is the main picture of someone doing a push up incorrectly? I understand that the text underneath tells people that its wrong, but it seems backwards to have the salient picture on the page showing NOT what to do.

If you have a better free picture, by all means replace it. — Matt Crypto 17:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was just wondering if the picture possessed some characteristic/s I couldnt percieve which warranted its selection. I may follow your advice though, as there seems to be no such justification. -Superfrog

That would be very helpful. Several people seem to have commented that the exercise isn't being performed "correctly". — Matt Crypto 06:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tables: These numbers in these tables are far too low. To say that a male aged 20-29 being able to do >35 is excellent is quite ridiculous. I got down and tried just then and could do 37 and I havent been training, playing sport or doing anything that could contibute. To call someone of my standard excellent is ridiculous. The numbers in the test section of the talk seem far more suitable.

We need reliable sources for this sort of data, not personal experience. — Matt Crypto 17:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly right, we need a reliable table, not one that declares so many people to be excellent. Now that I think about it though, the main problem I have is with the term excellent. Average and above average are probably correct labels but, but as my apparently disdained "personal experience" shows (as well as many others would im sure), the term excellent is far too congratulatory for such a standard. Perhaps we should change it to "good", any ideas? -Superfrog

The website the tables are taken from quote Pollock & Wilmore's "Exercise in Health and Disease" as a source; I presume they thought up the labels? I agree that we should probably avoid judgments of "excellence", but maybeeven "good" for the same reason. I can't think of a good alternative, though. I also wonder what population Pollock & Wilmore's averages are taken from. — Matt Crypto 06:40, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The number of push-ups chart

I think perhaps we need to reexamine the chart that rates people based on how many pushups you can do. Its figures are a little low. While I would like to believe that if I can do 38 push-ups, I am in excellent health, that's simply not true. However, some of the charts out there have somewhat high figures as well. One fitness book targeted at teens that I own rates those who can do 46 or more push-ups in a minute as excellent. I believe that this figure is probably more accurate than other analyses. We should find a good chart with at least plausible figures. As sort of a benchmark, I am 16 years old, have been working out for ~2 years, can bench my own weight, and consider myself at least reasonably strong. I can do 49 push-ups in a minute. While I would rate someone who can do 38+ push-ups in a minute as being in good health, I probably would not call them strong (unless they weighed a ton). We also need to change the article title to push-up. We're not all Brits, you know. -Peteweez 01:01, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You just took what I said right above this and restated it in a much more long winded way!:D.--Superfrog 14:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"We also need to change the article title to push-up. We're not all Brits, you know." — we're not all North Americans, either! Normally, outside of national topics, no variety of English gets precedence on Wikipedia: it's normally "first come, first served", I'm afraid. I'm sorry if that means that you have to put up with the UK variant, but we put up with a lot of US-centric spellings elsewhere. Regarding charts of press-ups: I'm dubious about the value of these, as "excellent" and such classifications are inevitably subjective, and are dependent, to an extent on body weight and how quickly one performs the exercise. At least the one we have is sourced; if you have another chart from a reliable source, maybe we could use that. — Matt Crypto 23:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK yeah sorry...I was just basically agreeing with you, and I can be long-winded sometimes. You're right about the first-come first-serve rule; sorry about that too, I have nothing against Brits. Probably the line that says "North American English: push up" is sufficient". You're also right about the inherent flaw in subjective classifications. However, you can compare the number of pushups one does to what a test group of people can do, with percentiles. Perhaps we could include the chart at http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/home-pushup.htm with a brief disclaimer (i.e. your bodyweight will affect your test results and tests such as these are inherently subjective). The numbers on that chart seemed a little high, though. I managed to do 60 push-ups (or press-ups, if that's what you want to call it) last night with two breaks in the rhythm (not rest, just breaks in the rhythm), and it was really hard. Though I'm not the world's strongest man, I am pretty fit as I mentioned above. However, I think that even some really strong people would have a really hard time attaining the 56+ push-ups to fall into the "excellent" (yes, I know, it's fundamentally flawed) category in the chart. What do you guys think? I think the 46+ standard might be more accurate than the 56+ standard. By the way, I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my previous post. I will try to be more respectful to people speaking other variants of English in the future. —Peteweez 03:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Such a generalized chart is mediocre because it does not account for weight differences. It's easier for a lighter individual to do a given number of push ups than it is for heavier people. Shawnc 07:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The existing charts on the page from the Army etc are very unclear. Nothing explains actually what the figures are. I assume they're number of push-ups but this isn't actually stated anywhere. EAi 00:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rectified. A little boldness never (usually) hurts! ;) Simões (^talk/_contribs) 01:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

--"I managed to do 60 push-ups (or press-ups, if that's what you want to call it) last night with two breaks in the rhythm (not rest, just breaks in the rhythm), and it was really hard. Though I'm not the world's strongest man, I am pretty fit as I mentioned above. However, I think that even some really strong people would have a really hard time attaining the 56+ push-ups to fall into the "excellent" (yes, I know, it's fundamentally flawed) category in the chart. What do you guys think?"--

Is this 60 in one minute or 60 in total(without any stops)? as I can do 75+ (varies but almost always can get a 75 minimum) total and I am quite simply put not fit. Dont know how many I can do in a minute though as I have no stopwatch lol.

But as noone has done any indepth tests, there is really no way of knowing if 46 is a better number than 56 for a label of excellent so use whichever you prefer.

--"Such a generalized chart is mediocre because it does not account for weight differences. It's easier for a lighter individual to do a given number of push ups than it is for heavier people"--

No its not, heavier people have to do more work but they have more muscle mass with which to do that work so thusly more stamina.

Plus how do you actually do a hindu pressup as I did it as the article describes and it was so danmned easy that im faily sure its pointless.

Plus why is the circus pressup not listed? It is a variation I saw on a exercise forum, you rest your forearms on the ground with elbows pointing down the body and then straighten your arms, I used to find it quite easy (dont now lol) and I think its worth mention

And is the chart stating the standards for the US army accurate as I wouldn't call 71-75 the 99th percentile. (I know theres a source that I should use to check the validity but for some reason it wont load up on my comp...)- Craig Humphreys, your local excessive eater.

New plyometric exercise

Do a one arm push up. On the way up, clap hands with the free hand in mid air, then return to the one arm position without letting the free hand touch the ground. For increased difficulty, use less than five digits. I call it the one arm clap push up. (Original research) Shawnc 08:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the caption under the picture is snarky. And HILARIOUS. 24.175.10.61 04:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Please provide sources for this sort of thing:

Other notable cases of "marathon" pushups include Vick Larymes of USA (8,943)and Ying Tong Shoji of China (9,996) and Chris Elliott of Australia (10,004). The accepted "exceptional" level of pushups in men is >100

Otherwise it's too easy for someone to add themselves. — Matt Crypto 10:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: I corrected the amount of pushups needed to pass the US Army Physical Fitness Test. It takes a score of 60% in each event, so it would require 42 push-ups for 17-21, et cetera... -AussieYank