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Talk:Knocker (folklore)

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Clarkpark (talk | contribs) at 23:30, 10 December 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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There is absolutely nothing I can find anywhere to suggest that Welsh and Cornish coal miners called these beings "Knockers" and that "Tommyknocker" is an American derivation. They were and are called "Tommyknockers" in the land of their origin and the article should reflect that. It was inappropriate license to change the title of the articles.--User:Clarkpark (Howard Evans) 1:, 15 May 2006

Growing up in Cornwall I always knew them as 'knockers', and they were said to be the spirits of Jews brought to Cornwall as slaves by the Romans to work the mines. They would signal the presence of ore (not coal - coal has never been mined in Cornwall). They had to be treated with respect, else they would bring bad luck. I don't have sources to hand, but will find out what I can and come back to the article.--DuncanHill 21:42, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you to http://www.blm.gov/heritage/HE_Kids/tommy_knock.htm on the Bureau of Land Management website, and http://www.edcgov.us/stories/tommyknockers.htm on the El Dorado County site. Googling Tommyknockers and Knockers will reveal other data. While coal isn't common in Cornwall, it is in Wales, which is where most of the retreating Brythons wound up. Most of the data used to create this article came from the El Dorado site and a book on American myths and legends. The BLM site confirms the Cornish origin of the term Tommyknockers. The statement that you grew up in Cornwall lends you some credibility, though not nearly as much as you'd have if you could say you grew up in Cornwall two hundred years ago before the Cornish brought these legends here.

confusing

I added the confusing template because the article is indeed very confusing. At points it is difficult to tell weather it is talking about Welsh people or the mythical creatures, and it tries very little to ephasize the mythical side of the stories. Besides there is usage of slang such as "wee miners" and there is simply no source material listed at all.

--Fmafra 17:56, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And I just removed it. When a second person tells you it's confusing, put the flag back. Until then, you should assume your confusion to be individual. ~~Clarkpark~~ Dec 10, 2006


Knocker vs Tommyknocker

Tommyknocker is not a US derivation of Knocker. The reason both words are used in Cornwall and also in places where Cornish miners influenced mining communities (Especially Canada and USA) is because Tommyknockers and Knockers are not the same the thing. There is a subtle difference. Knockers are members of the "wee folk" that live underground and whose attitude toward miners ranges from malicious to benevolent depending on the amount of respect the miners show to the Knockers. Many miners in Canada and USA (and Cornish miners with whom I've worked) still follow customs intended to show respect for Knockers "just in case", for example; never whistling underground, leaving a tiny bit of food outside your lunch-pail, etc. There is also a belief that if a miner dies underground then his soul will be trapped in the mine and he will be compelled by the Knockers to join them in their labour. The trapped souls of the men who have died in the mine are called Tommyknockers. SGM

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