Talk:WPJX

WPJX Format

The radio industry has standardized classifications for formats, also used here on Wikipedia. Wikipedia defines Active Rock in part as:

"An active rock station plays music by hard rock and heavy metal artists from the mid-1990s to the present day, particularly those artists which are often absent from alternative rock or classic rock radio playlists."

The Arbitron ratings do not classify any station in North America as "heavy metal." The format used for ratings and advertising agencies and trade publications is universally "active rock."

An active rock station can play heavy metal, but the format name is "active rock." In the same sense that a Contemporary Hits station can play dance, R&B, pop, or rock but is not defined as a format by any of those labels.

The user insisting on calling the station "heavy metal" is focused on secondary press sources that define WPJX as "heavy metal/hard rock." In other words, what is defined on Wikipedia itself and Arbitron as "active rock." The previous incarnation of the station is also referred to as "hard rock."

This debate is easily solved by classifying WPJX as what it is. An active rock format. Insisting on calling it "heavy metal" is simply the preference of one user.

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Using your logic then, you need to call every Adult Contemporary, Hot Adult Contemporary, R&B, Hip Hop, Classic Hip Hop, Dance radio station a CHR station.

A CHR station can play various types of music, but those same types get their own formats/labels that you allow, but Heavy Metal is not allowed?

Arbitron no longer exists since 2013 when the company was bought be Nielsen. Does not matter what any rating service goes by anyways. Since when is that a law? WPJX does not subscribe to Nielsen, and neither do many other small radio stations. Since when does a label used by a rating service dictate the format that a radio station decides to program?

There are many artists heard on Active Rock which are NEVER played on Rebel Radio WPJX. For example, you will NEVER hear on Rebel Radio: Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Green Day, Nickelback, Shinedown, Saving Abel.

Rebel Radio's Heavy Metal format was founded a quarter century ago in 1994 (on WKTA Evanston, Illinois), long before some programming consultants concocted the 'Active Rock' label in the late 90's / early 2000's. Furthermore, Scott Davidson (Rebel Radio Founder and current CEO / DJ) got started playing Heavy Metal over 30 years ago in 1989 on G-Force 1330 (also on WKTA).

Your comments are totally inaccurate and funny: "This debate is easily solved by classifying WPJX as what it is. An active rock format. Insisting on calling it "heavy metal" is simply the preference of one user."

The format IS Heavy Metal. Rebel Radio NEVER was Active Rock, and it is not now. And no, this isn't just the preference of one user. In fact, all of the staff at the station and the listeners know that Rebel Radio IS a Heavy Metal radio station, so now this debate is easily solved.

I invite you to read the Wikipedia article on Heavy Metal, so you can learn. Read the Wikipedia article on Z Rock. That article does not say the format at Z Rock was Active Rock, does it?

WPJX AM & FM is one of the only full time, commercial Heavy Metal radio stations in the USA. The only others I know of: KGSR-HD3 Austin, Texas (No Control Radio), WKBU-HD2 New Orleans & KISW-HD2 Seattle (Entercom's Metal Militia, formerly 'The Metal Channel'), WSOU South Orange, New Jersey (Seton Hall University, non commercial), WXNK AM & FM Shell Lake, Wisconsin (The Ink, 80's based Hard Rock / Heavy Metal).

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You are absolutely inaccurate, and you seem to be very upset specifically regarding Rebel Radio, especially since you're clearly from the Chicagoland area. I'm wondering if you have some connection to the station.

At any rate, you've made numerous inaccurate statements here. First of all - "adult contemporary" is a clearly defined industry format, also defined here on Wikipedia. "Adult Contemporary" may CONTAIN certain genres of music - just as Active Rock may CONTAIN metal, but the format nomenclature remains.

The issue is not what WPJX calls themselves, or what blogs and references call the format. But if it were, the linked sources here clearly label the format as "heavy metal/hard rock." So even these sources are not labelling the format as strictly heavy metal. Active Rock ENCOMPASSES the heavy metal and hard rock genres.

Even the Rebel Radio "about" page contains the phrase "hard rock AND heavy metal" which proves the format is not exclusively metal. They also program a punk rock programme, which again proves the format is not exclusively metal and is most accurately described as Active Rock.

The issue is also not that WPJX does not play certain artists that other stations play. The issue is purely that your personal opinion of the format, or the opinion of the station staff or the listeners (which one might suspect you of being a staffer or fan) does not match up with the accepted conventions for radio formats on Wikipedia. Your opinion is original research.

Your mention of Z-Rock also is a defeater of your argument. Z-Rock was a commercial format syndicated to numerous major market stations that has had multiple, documented in trades adjustments during the run of their format, and it was considered Active Rock for most of its tenure playing many of the bands you cited in your comment, along with harder classic rock, punk and alternative. WSOU is listed as "Active Rock" here on Wikipedia. It's defined as playing "a modern active rock format, featuring heavy metal, punk, emo, hardcore and post-hardcore as well as other types of rock-based music." WXNK is also listed as Active Rock.

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Very clear that you don't know what you are talking about! You think that you know everything, but you don't. You have made many innacurate statements.

Read this article from the Chicago Tribune. It says the format of Rebel Radio WPJX is Heavy Metal!

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lincolnshire/chi-ugc-article-heavy-metal-underground-music-station-rebel-2015-09-02-story.html

So we have: Chicago Tribune, Robert Feder (well known Chicago media columnist), Illinois Entertainer, Radio Insight, Northpine.com, columnist James Van Osdol, all say that Rebel Radio is Heavy Metal. Everyone except for you. And what I say is just my opinion, right?

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It's very clear you want a fight with me based on your personal opinion. Many of those citations call it a "heavy metal/HARD ROCK" format. If you would read the definition of Active Rock here on Wikipedia, you would see clearly that Active Rock encompasses heavy metal and hard rock genres. Thus, the format is active rock. Period. Stop the emotional overreactions and the edit warring. The stations you cited are defined here as active rock, and that is the acceptable nomenclature for the format of what appears to be either your employer or your personal favorite station.

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https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lincolnshire/chi-ugc-article-heavy-metal-underground-music-station-rebel-2015-09-02-story.html

"Rebel Radio stays ROCK HARD for 21 years! Chicagoland's favorite —heavy metal, underground Station, Rebel Radio, founded by Scott Davidson, has been crankin' up and crankin' out the best in —heavy metal since July 10th, 1994"

https://radioinsight.com/headlines/171011/rebel-radio-returns-to-chicago-suburbs/

"The —Heavy Metal “Rebel Radio” brand that has bounced around signals in the greater Chicago area for over two decades as found a new 24/7 home on Polnet Communications 1500 WPJX/92.5 W223CN Zion"

Actually it's very clear that YOU want a fight based YOUR personal opinion. You have a lame excuse for everything. And you think that you know everything, but you don't. YOU ARE FLAT OUT WRONG! In this case, it does not matter that Active Rock ecompasses different styles of music. Rebel Radio WPJX programs a specific type of music: HEAVY METAL. Period! Did you forget / choose to ignore what I already said?: There is much music heard on Active Rock radio stations (Grunge, post Grunge, pop Grunge) that Rebel Radio NEVER plays, and vice versa. Does Active Rock radio play: Iced Earth, Manowar, UFO, SOiL, Lynch Mob, Doro, Accept, Ellefson, Soulfly? I can go on and on.

Not one of those citations listed above call the format Active Rock. NONE!

As long as you like to use the word "encompass" so much, take a look at CHR. That format encompasses many different types of music too (Pop, Adult Contemporary, Hot Adult Contemporary, R&B, Hip Hop, Classic Hip Hop, etc.), but those types are allowed radio station format categories too on Wikipedia, but Heavy Metal isn't allowed? I wonder why?

Actually the radio stations that I cited are Heavy Metal regardless of what Wikipedia says. In fact, a couple of the stations that named DID indicate that the format is Heavy Metal (as of yesterday) on Wikipedia.

Your comment about what is "acceptable nomenclature" and what isn't is only your opinion. It does not matter what format names Nielsen goes by (the actual name the company is Nielsen, not Arbitron as you incorrectly indicated). That company is an independent business that has no authority or relevancy as to what the format Rebel Radio WPJX broadcasts. Does Nielsen make laws that everyone is required to adhere to? Are they the radio police? By the way, WPJX does not subscribe to Nielsen (just like many other small radio stations do not). Do you have the money to pay the thousands of dollars per month for their inaccurate ratings (which are nothing more than a wild guess based on a very small sample).

I find it very interesting that you bring up the Punk Rock specialty show. That is a 1 hour show which airs 1 day per week. So that justifies changing the format of WPJX to Active Rock? There many radio stations across the country which air specialty shows for short periods of time, but that does not change the station's primary format. For example, WBBM airs Chicago Bears football and Old Time Radio Dramas for 1 hour at midnight on weeknights. Should the format name be changed from All News to Variety instead? Another example, WGN airs Frank Sinatra music on Sunday mornings and Old Time Radio Dramas late at night on weekends. Should the format name be changed from Talk to Variety?

I wonder why you forgot to mention the other specialty shows that Rebel Radio WPJX airs?: A Layer Of Slayer, Sabbath Six Pack, Friday Night Live, Metal Remake, The Mosh Pit. What about those shows? Is it because those shows are Heavy Metal, and you have an agenda so they don't get mentioned?

By the way, the reason why Rebel Radio WPJX airs a Punk Rock Show for 1 hour on Sunday nights is that Punk Rock is heavy music ignored by every other corporate radio station just like Heavy Metal is. Also, Thrash Heavy Metal music is influenced by Punk, and vice versa.

What you don't get is that Rebel Radio is anti-corporate radio. That's what the name 'Rebel Radio' means. The radio station is —rebelling against the corporate programming heard on most other radio stations. Again, Rebel Radio was founded in 1994, and Scott Davidson got his start in 1989 at Heavy Metal G-Force 1330 (on WKTA Evanston), which is a decade BEFORE some corporate radio consultants concocted the 'Active Rock' label. There is plenty of Grunge / post Grunge / pop Grunge which is common on Active Rock, but is never played on Rebel Radio WPJX.

Have you listened to the Rebel Radio stream? You will notice after listening for 5 minutes that Rebel Radio WPJX is much different than any Active Rock radio station.

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What you or I consider what's on their stream to be is irrelevant. The industry nomenclature used for WSOU and WXNK is "Active Rock." Go read those articles. Then read "Active Rock." Active rock includes heavy metal, but the radio format is "Active Rock." Heavy Metal is a musical genre which in broadcast terms is played under the umbrella of "Active Rock."

Look at this from WSOU's article on Wikipedia:

"The station currently broadcasts a modern active rock format, featuring heavy metal, punk, emo, hardcore and post-hardcore as well as other types of rock-based music."

No one is asking what bands WPJX does not play. That's subjective. Not every station in ANY format plays all of the same bands. None of the stations you named are listed as "Heavy Metal." I do not include the HD2 as HD2 channels are notoriously fickle, often removed, changed, etc. So an HD2 channel listed as "Heavy Metal" would not be relevant to the format of WPJX, even if it were NOT Active Rock.

You are being very emotional about this subject, going as far as to extend your rant into an emotional defense of a singular programmer of a single radio station. The name of WPJX's programming "Rebel Radio" is no more relevant than if it were called The Fox or The Hound. Mr. Davidson and his career are not the subject of the article, or an issue of discussion. It doesn't matter if WPJX's "Rebel Radio" programming is an individual, a corporation or a non profit.

The format descriptor of Active Rock stands. Troll on behalf of your favorite station elsewhere.

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No, the correct format of Rebel Radio WPJX IS: Heavy Metal, and that description stands. Sounds like you are the troll, trying to change the format of WPJX to whatever you want. By the way, the name 'Rebel Radio' IS totally relevant because the name describes the mission of the radio station: a REBELLION against corporate radio. Is that too difficult for you to understand?

Again, there is NO law that indicates a radio station can not have a format that falls under the umbrella of another format! If that were the case, all: Adult Contemporary, Hot Adult Contemporary, R&B, Hip Hop, Classic Hip Hop radio station should be called CHR according to your logic because they fall "under the umbrella" of CHR, right?

Take note that I am asking you a question. Seems like don't want to answer any of the questions that I ask.

You keep forgetting that Rebel Radio started in 1994 (and 1989 at G-Force 1330), which is long BEFORE some corporate, programming consultants invented the label 'Active Rock'.

The name of the founder is: Scott Davidson, not 'Jameson'. You are wrong.

Do want to learn about "industry nomenclature"? Then read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music

Heavy Metal is a nomenclature too that even has it's own article right here in Wikipedia!

Here's a link to another article about Rebel Radio. Just like my other 2 examples, NOBODY uses the description 'Active Rock'. Once again you are FLAT OUT 100% WRONG!:

https://jamesvanosdol.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/off-mic-scott-davidson-rebel-radio/

"I’ve been trading emails with Scott over the past month or so about his ongoing and wholly underground “Rebel Radio,” a metal outpost as pure in intent as it is in sound. Currently heard on AM 1500 WPJX and AM 1330 WKTA, “Rebel Radio” __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The active rock format originated before Scott Davidson. He is not the issue. Active rock was a format before 1994, even before 1989. It was known in a trade magazine "The Hard Report" as COR (Contemporary Oriented Rock) to differentiate it from Album Oriented Rock, to name one example. This is a fact known by radio professionals, and your opinion (and your emails with Mr. Davidson) are not relevant to this article.

Also not relevant is the mission of Rebel Radio against "corporate" radio. WPJX is owned by a corporation. If Mr. Jameson's operating the station out of some personal mission, that's his business but it's not relevant to Wikipedia or the radio industry why he does or does not play any type of music or what he names his radio station. He can call it The Carp for all it matters.

You seem to have a cause here. An anti "corporate radio" and pro heavy metal passion. That's fine for fan forums and personal media. But it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. CHR is Contemporary Hit Radio. A radio format that plays Contemporary Hits. Active Rock plays metal and hard rock. Take your misguided crusade elsewhere, Mr. Davidson (or fan.)

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Who is Mr. Jameson? Since you did not read what I wrote last time, once again his name is Scott Davidson--NOT Jameson. And, no I am not Mr. Jameson or Scott Davidson. I am a fan of the radio station (WPJX), and various other stations too. Is that against the law? (for a radio listener to make corrections here)

Once again you are WRONG. The label 'Active Rock' did NOT exist before the late 90's. It was invented by corporate radio consultants at that time.

Rebel Radio WPJX has a much different sound than 'Active Rock' radio stations, having preceded that label by a decade! Rebel Radio plays only Heavy Metal, a style of music that got started in the late 60's.

Once again, you will never hear: Grunge / post Grunge / pop Grunge (common music on Active Rock) on Rebel Radio WPJX AM & FM.

By the way, you never explained why Adult Contemporary / Hot Adult Contemporary / R&B / Hip Hop / Classic Hip Hop shouldn't be called CHR (because, after all CHR encompasses all of those genres)?

I have shown you links to several articles, and all of them say that Rebel Radio IS Heavy Metal. Not of one of the articles uses the phrase 'Active Rock'. These are sources which prove that you are wrong.

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Your "fan perspective" of WPJX is irrelevant. The term active rock existed in the radio trades long before anyone had ever heard of these small AM stations in the suburbs where Rebel Radio brokers time.

The late 90s? COR (which is one trade's term for active rock) existed long before the late 90s. Your obsession with "corporate radio consultants" is misguided at best, and agenda driven. Programmers and trades invented these descriptors - you are wrong on the dates and wrong on the origins.

I don't know what "pop grunge" is. It seems like another subjective label you're assigning to try and raise the profile of a station you're a fan of.

Active Rock includes metal and hard rock. Active Rock is a format. Stop the trolling.

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Hey Troll, I am still waiting for you to answer this question:

By the way, you never explained why Adult Contemporary / Hot Adult Contemporary / R&B / Hip Hop / Classic Hip Hop shouldn't be called CHR (because, after all CHR encompasses all of those genres)?

In other words, why is a sub-genre of Active Rock not allowed to have it's own format but a sub-genres of CHR are allowed?

Another thing, since Heavy Metal is not allowed, let's change this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music to Active Rock music instead according to your logic.

While we're at it, all of the major Heavy Metal Music Festivals around the world need to be re-named as Active Rock festivals, right? LOL

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The discussion is about WPJX and Active Rock. Not music festivals or other formats. Not musical genres. Radio formats. You've been educated as regards your mistaken assertions about when Active Rock became a format, about "corporate radio" and so on. Take the agenda elsewhere.

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Still waiting for you to answer my question above. Let's hear your answer. I'm waiting. Here's my question again:

By the way, you never explained why Adult Contemporary / Hot Adult Contemporary / R&B / Hip Hop / Classic Hip Hop shouldn't be called CHR (because, after all CHR encompasses all of those genres)?

In other words, why is a sub-genre of Active Rock not allowed to have it's own format but a sub-genres of CHR are allowed?

Articles on the internet about Rebel Radio that NEVER use the label 'Active Rock' NONE!

https://jamesvanosdol.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/off-mic-scott-davidson-rebel-radio/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lincolnshire/chi-ugc-article-heavy-metal-underground-music-station-rebel-2015-09-02-story.html

https://radioinsight.com/headlines/171011/rebel-radio-returns-to-chicago-suburbs/

http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/archive/news1018.html

https://illinoisentertainer.com/2008/07/hello-my-name-is-scott/

The articles above PROVE that you are wrong. NOBODY but you calls Rebel Radio 'Active Rock'. You need to take your agenda elsewhere.

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Let's be clear. I don't care what a blog calls the music on Rebel Radio. They can call it punk, metal or polka. What one calls the music on a station as a blogger or listener is subjective personal opinion.

Having said that, some of those sources call the station a "heavy metal/HARD ROCK" station. If you'll read the Wikipedia definition of Active Rock, it includes heavy metal and hard rock. Therefore, if you put "Active Rock" as the format, it includes the genre you're fixated on.

I don't know why you're being so pedantic about this but you need to stop. It's disruptive and inane.

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The same applies to YOU!: I don't know why you're being so pedantic about this but you need to stop. It's disruptive and inane.

So you consider sources like the Chicago Tribune, media writer Robert Feder (well know Chicago columnist for 35 years), Illinois Entertainer (published since 1974), Radio Insight, Northpine are not reliable? LOL!

NONE of the sources say that Rebel Radio plays Active Rock. NONE!

Still waiting for you to answer my question:

By the way, you never explained why Adult Contemporary / Hot Adult Contemporary / R&B / Hip Hop / Classic Hip Hop shouldn't be called CHR (because, after all CHR encompasses all of those genres)?

In other words, why is a sub-genre of Active Rock not allowed to have it's own format but a sub-genres of CHR are allowed?

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Those sites you link to define the format as HARD ROCK and HEAVY METAL.

Active Rock DEFINED on Wikipedia includes.. guess what? HARD ROCK and HEAVY METAL.

ACTIVE ROCK sufficiently covers EXACTLY what you're saying the station is. Why is it so offensive to you? Wikipedia doesn't exist to promote your station's branding or promotional approach.

CHR is a format that contains multiple genres. So does Active Rock. This only needs explaining to someone who isn't literate.

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NONE OF THE ARTICLES SAY THAT REBEL RADIO PLAYS ACTIVE ROCK--NONE!!!!!!!

But the various genres heard on CHR are also allowed their own format categories as well. Sounds like YOU are the one that isn't literate. I see radio stations format categories listed for: Soft Adult Contemporary, Hot Adult Contemporary, Urban Contemporary, Hip hop, Classic Hip Hop, etc.

But different genres within Active Rock are not allowed their own categories as well???????????????? Is that too difficult a concept for you to understand?

Why do you have a problem labeling Rebel Radio's format as Heavy Metal? There are many artists on Active Rock stations that Rebel Radio does not play, because the artists are not Metal. And, there are many artists heard on Rebel Radio that no Active Rock radio stations ever play on the air.

Rebel Radio WPJX has a unique format that not many other radio stations are doing.

To answer your question, it is offensive to me because it is FALSE and 100% NOT ACCURATE. I have already provided examples and tried to explain to you why the 2 formats are much different, with some overlap. Has NOTHING to do with "branding or promotional approach". Heavy Metal is it's own style of music which was started in the late 60's (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Blue Cheer, Jimi Hendrix, MC5, etc.) __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Active Rock - from the Wikipedia article "active rock stations play music by hard rock and heavy metal artists"

Active Rock = Hard Rock & Heavy Metal

Period.

No one cares that Rebel Radio (according to you) doesn't play certain artists on other stations. That isn't the question.

From the above definition, Rebel Radio is correctly categorized on Wikipedia as Active Rock along with WSOU and WXNK. Stations YOU cited in a previous comment. So your own arguments support labelling Rebel Radio as Active Rock.

Stop your concern trolling and fanboyism.

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You forgot to mention that Active Rock plays Grunge (Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins) and post Grunge (Shinedown, Nickelback, Saving Abel, which crosses over into Modern Adult Contemporary) too. All of it is NEVER played on Rebel Radio WPJX because that is not Heavy Metal, which is Rebel Radio's format.

I was simply naming out the few radio stations in the country that also air Heavy Metal. Not sure why you keep going back to that. For the record, The Ink plays 80's based Heavy Metal with very few currents. Regardless of what Wikipedia calls it, that's the format. The corporate invented phrase Active Rock did not exist in the 80's. Not the first time that Wikipedia has been known to have mistakes. I can give you hundreds of examples.

I named WSOU because they air some Heavy Metal shows. I never said that was the full time format. Like most college radio stations, formats throughout the day can change depending on what the DJ likes. WSOU happens to play alot of Metal. That's a well known fact. Rob Halford (lead singer of Heavy Metal band Judas Priest) said on VH1 that his favorite radio stations are Rebel Radio and WSOU. There was no way Rob Halford would care about that station if he heard Shinedown or Nickelback.

You need to stop your trolling.

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WRONG.

There is no "quota" for how much of each genre an active rock station does or does not play and it varies with station.

Your own sources claim WPJX plays "hard rock and metal" - WPJX also plays classic rock.

Therefore, WPJX is an Active Rock station as defined by Wikipedia, Active Rock is not an inaccurate descriptor and you are a fanboy and a vandal who has an axe to grind against "corporate radio" as you subjectively define it. Active Rock existed in the late 80s - originally known as COR (Contemporary Oriented Rock.) Maybe you should do your homework and research the history of radio.

Now you're backtracking on your references to WSOU and WXNK to support your assertions. "For the record" - your personal opinion is not the record. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

LMAO!: "WPJX also plays classic rock." Most of your comments make me laugh. First you say that WPJX is Active Rock, and now you say that WPJX is Classic Rock. Haha!

To be specific, Rebel Radio WPJX plays Classic Heavy Metal, and current Heavy Metal, and all of the Heavy Metal in between.

WPJX is an anti-Active Rock and anti-Classic Rock radio station. They are doing a format that is unique, and much different from than the corporate labels that you use. There are hundreds of radio stations that have those formats, but Rebel Radio WPJX is not one of them.

WPJX is a Heavy Metal radio station as defined by Wikipedia.

By the way, I am still waiting for you to explain why genres within CHR are allowed as specific radio station formats, but genres within Active Rock are not? WHY????????????

By your own comments, you have already proved that Active Rock did exist in the 80's (and most of the 90's) because it went by a different name. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. I never said it was a classic rock station. I said they played some classic rock.

WPJX's "anti" stance is irrelevant. WLS is an "anti Democrat" radio station. WCPT is an "anti Republican" station. WLIT is an "anti-rap station" perhaps. It's meaningless subjective opinion that has nothing to do with Wikipedia.

I already stated active rock existed as a format. You claimed it wasn't even a format before the late 90s and invented by "corporate consultants" Whatever those are.

Learn radio. Stop trolling. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Actually you are the Troll that needs to learn radio.

You know next to nothing about the Heavy Metal format, and how the sound is much different than Active Rock. Were you listening to Z-Rock in the 80's when the network was programmed by Wild Bill Scott? Were you listening to KNAC Long Beach, CA in the 80's? Were you listening to Real Precious Metal WVVX Highland Park, IL in the 80's? Were you listening to The Blaze WWBZ Chicago (and it's twin from Salt Lake City) in the 80's? Were you listening to G-Force 1330 WKTA Evanston, IL in the late 80's / early 90's? Were you listening to Rebel Radio (heard on 12 different signals for a quarter century since 1994)?

If you had, you would realize that the sound was / still is much different than corporate consulted Active Rock stations. Guess what? NO Grunge and no post-Grunge.

Another thing, most certainly IS relevant that Rebel Radio is anti-Active Rock and anti-Classic Rock. In fact, that's what they do, which is to not sound like those same cookie cutter consulted Active Rock and Classic Rock radio stations everywhere in the country.

You have alot to learn!

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The what-aboutism is silly. Were you there when Marconi invented radio? Were you there for the sign on of KDKA? Have you ever personally read a ratings book? Have you held an FCC license? What was KNAC before it was "Pure Rock?" NO GOOGLING!

Sit down son. And stop the trolling.

If you'd read any number of trades in the era you're referencing, you'd be well aware that Z-Rock played a lot of grunge. In fact, it was a point of frequent discussion - hairbands vs the Seattle sound, etc. Check. Mate.

Your anecdotal fandom of a bunch of brokered suburban stations before most people even had dialup modems isn't relevant to this discussion. Not all or even most Active Rock stations have consultants. You sure have a thing about consultants. Did you get fired by one?

This article isn't about your anti-corporate, anti-classic rock, anti-whatever agenda. Go paint a sign and wave it out the window. Also, it's "a lot."

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Once again, you do not know what you are talking about. For the record, when Z-Rock started in 1986 on WZRC Des Plaines, IL (and 2 other stations in MI and MS) programmed by Wild Bill Scott, they played NO Grunge. In fact, Grunge did not exist at the time. The only Seattle music they played was: Queensryche, a Heavy Metal band still heard often on Rebel Radio WPJX AM & FM.

Have you ever listened to 'Liquid Metal' on satellite radio? That's what Rebel Radio sounds like. Liquid Metal is a HEAVY METAL channel, just like Rebel Radio WPJX is a HEAVY METAL radio station. NOBODY except for you refers to those stations as Active Rock. I have already provided to you numerous articles that confirm I am correct: The format is: Heavy Metal. Not a single article listed below says anything about Active Rock--NONE!

Chicago Tribune https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lincolnshire/chi-ugc-article-heavy-metal-underground-music-station-rebel-2015-09-02-story.html

Robert Feder (well known Chicago media newspaper columnist) https://www.robertfeder.com/2019/07/10/robservations-white-sox-ratings-seven-year-high-nbc-sports-chicago/

Robert Feder https://www.robertfeder.com/2018/10/04/robservations-chuck-schaden-returns-days-milestone/

Northpine http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/archive/news1018.html

Radio Insight https://radioinsight.com/headlines/171011/rebel-radio-returns-to-chicago-suburbs/

Inside Radio http://www.insideradio.com/free/news-bites-pink-wbez-rebel-radio-wip-fm/article_4cb170b6-c819-11e8-acb6-27f874c1aab7.html

James Van Osdol https://jamesvanosdol.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/off-mic-scott-davidson-rebel-radio/

Illinois Entertainer https://illinoisentertainer.com/2008/07/hello-my-name-is-scott/

By the way, I am still waiting for you to explain why genres within CHR are allowed as formats but genres within Active Rock are not? I'm starting to think that you don't have an answer. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm not falling for your deflection. CHR is a format. Not a genre. Active Rock is a format, that includes your vaunted heavy metal genre.

Active Rock as defined on Wikipedia includes heavy metal and hard rock. Just as the mentions in your linked articles do. "heavy metal and hard rock" = Active Rock (as defined by Wikipedia.) Learn!

What a satellite pay service does or what Z Rock did during a specific window of time remains irrelevant. Z-Rock was never purely metal. And has no bearing on WPJX. Go away, Scott. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

LOLOL! Z-Rock most certainly was HEAVY METAL when the network started in 1986. You are badly misinformed. Were you listening 1986 - 1988 when Wild Bill Scott was in charge of programming? Wild Bill was replaced by Lee Abrams, who came in and ruined Z-Rock.

I NEVER said that CHR is a genre. I said there are genres within CHR which are allowed their own format categories here on Wikipedia, but genres within Active Rock are not allowed? Why is that? A radio station is not allowed to have a Heavy Metal format here? Makes no sense! Like I tried to explain, there are are only a few radio stations in the entire country that have the balls to broadcast a full time, Heavy Metal format. And the few stations that do are not allowed by you to call themselves Heavy Metal on Wikipedia.

Even though they were broadcasting Heavy Metal for a decade BEFORE the 'Active Rock' label (concocted by programming consultants) ever existed.

By the way, I am not Scott. I am a fan of Rebel Radio, and other radio stations. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This article isn't about Z-Rock, Wild Bill Scott, or Wild Bill Hickok. And you're letting your fanboy emotions and opinions cloud your perspective.

Active Rock is the accepted definition of the heavy metal/hard rock focused radio format. As clearly defined here on Wikipedia, and your source articles which clearly state WPJX's format includes hard rock AND heavy metal. As does active rock. You say potato, I say potatoe.

But Active Rock is accurate and stands. Your very language is unprofessional. What is a neutral editor doing talking about "having the balls" to program whatever?

The designation for WSOU and WXNK is acceptable for WPJX. WPJX is not so special it gets an exemption because of internet fanclubs. Learn some radio. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

YOU are the one that needs to learn some radio because you are badly misinformed.

NONE OF MY SOURCES (linked articles) indicate that the format of Rebel Radio WPJX is Active Rock. NOT a single article, so you are flat out wrong as usual!

And no, Active Rock is NOT an accepted definition of the format at WPJX because the music is NOT the same! Listen to the stream for 5 minutes and you will learn.

And no, Active Rock is NOT accurate and it does NOT stand.

By the way, just quoting John Schaffer from Iced Earth on the sweeper: "You are listening to Rebel Radio, the only station with the balls to play the real metal".

Still waiting for you to answer my questions:

1) Why are genres within CHR allowed to have their own format categories, but genres within Active Rock are not? STILL WAITING.

2) Have you heard Liquid Metal on satellite radio? Sounds similar to WPJX, and nobody calls that channel Active Rock. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let me explain this again, very slowly.

Your linked sources describe WPJX as playing HARD ROCK and HEAVY METAL.

Wikipedia describes Active Rock as playing (please pay attention closely).. HARD ROCK and HEAVY METAL.

THE SAME THING.

Therefore, Active Rock is accurate and stands. We are not discussing CHR or Satellite Radio. What Liquid Metal plays is not relevant. Nor is what you hear on your own listening time. That's original research and it's not neutral.

It's also a well known fact to people who do their homework that online streams are often NOT strict simulcasts of the over the air signal due to regulations. So your original research from the stream and a sweeper you're supposedly hearing have no bearing on this.

Ever held an FCC license? I'm guessing you haven't. Drop your idealistic genre warrioring and clean up your lewd language. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let me explain this again, very slowly: NONE OF MY SOURCES (linked articles) indicate that the format of Rebel Radio WPJX is Active Rock. NOT a single article!

Not my language. Like I said (but apparently you were not paying attention), just quoting John Schaffer from Iced Earth.

You are a fool for categorizing Rebel Radio WPJX together with corporate stations that play soft music like: Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Green Day, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Shinedown, Nickelback, Saving Abel. WPJX does not play any of that!

And what Liquid Metal plays most certainly IS relevant because WPJX has the same format, which certainly is not Active Rock. Never was and never will be!

By the way, apparently you have never heard Soulfly and must be confusing them with somebody else because Soulfly is one of the heaviest bands on the planet. Certainly not what is heard on corporate Active Rock. Once again, you do not know what you are talking about. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You need to get past the name calling and obsession with "corporate" this and that. The opinion of "John Shaffer" of "Iced Earth" is irrelevant second-hand material you're using to boost your point.

Liquid Metal is not relevant. It's not the subject of this article. XM has numerous niche formats, that are not broadcast formats or accepted in ratings and ad agencies. Your claiming they are the same isn't even substantiated. You're saying "I listen and they're the same." Not good enough for Wikipedia.

Soulfly has had airplay on numerous active rock stations, but I'm guessing you've never read a copy of FMQB, Gavin, Hard Report or Radio and Records. However, specific station playlists aren't the point.

The point remains Wikipedia and your sources make a clear point - that hard rock and heavy metal are a part of Active Rock. I appreciate your passion for your genre of choice, but it has no bearing on this article. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Your own words: "XM has numerous niche formats, that are not broadcast formats or accepted in ratings and ad agencies."

That's exactly what WPJX brodcasts: a niche format! WPJX does not subscribe to the ratings which costs thousands of dollars per month (for inaccurate information which is nothing more than a wild guess based on a very small sample). Do you want to pay for the ratings?

Rebel Radio does NOT care what formats are accepted in ratings and ad agencies. That means NOTHING! WPJX broadcasts Heavy Metal (a niche format), same as Liquid Metal. Actually the station is REBELLING against ratings / ad agencies / large corporations with cookie cotter formats, which is why the station is named Rebel Radio. Very appropriate name they decided to call themselves.

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And Wikipedia doesn't care if Rebel Radio considers themselves a business, a charity or radio anarchists. Check. Mate.

What makes you think I've not paid for ratings? Obviously I know more about broadcasting. Ever held a license? Ever held a job in broadcasting?

Nielsen ratings have a scientific method with accurate samples. Their methods are accredited and vetted. I suppose you don't believe polls are legitimate that don't agree with your views, either? Huge companies use these ratings and rely on them being done accurately. This is a business, not a hobby son.

Let's be clear. Wikipedia doesn't care what Rebel Radio cares about. Wikipedia defines active rock. And your sources agree with Wikipedia. Wikipedia's definitions stand, and your edit war doesn't. Go listen to Rebel Radio and wave your pirate flag kiddo. If Rebel Radio is such an anarchist's project, how do they pay their power and streaming bills? Or that lease to PolNet?

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Just the opposite! You Lie! Actually my sources disagree with Wikipedia. Not a single linked source indicates that the format of Rebel Radio is Active Rock! NONE!!!!!!!!!!!! They all indicate that Rebel Radio is HEAVY METAL!!!!

I did not say anything regarding if you have paid for ratings or not. Once again, you are WRONG. I was asking: if you want to pay for Rebel Radio's ratings?

And, NO the definitions do not stand.

And Yes, I have worked in broadcasting.

At least answer your questions, which is something you do not do most of the time. Still waiting why genres within CHR are allowed their own format categories, but a format within Active Rock (which preceded Active Rock by 30 years) is not? Still waiting.

Answer the question!