Talk:Miami Hurricanes football

Records

Should we really list them here? They are informative, but they require a tremendous amount of upkeep to keep them current. As is, I think most of the records listed are current as of 2002, so I'm not sure some of them are even records anymore. For the same reasons, team designations for alumni should not be listed. They are too fluid for current players and retired players may have played for 3, 4, or even 5 teams. The link to the individual player page will inform interested users of what team the player played for.-66.254.232.219 05:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Nobody has voiced an objection, so I'm going to go ahead and dump the record sections. There's really no way we could stay on top of all those records to keep them current. Hopefully, we can add to the article with individual sections on championship seasons (an 83 section, a 87 section, an 89 section...) and sections on rivalries and maybe Cane commaradarie (about how former players remain intensely involved in the program and still work out with the current guys at UM in the off-season). We'll make up for the loss of the records, to be sure.-CaneMan 01:39, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I started on the seasonal sections. I've got 2001 done so far and added headings for '83, '87, '89, and '91. Feel free to add to them at your desire.-66.254.232.219 21:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

NFL team affiliations

It seems to me that the NFL team affiliations, along with the names of the NFL players, adds substantially to this article and should remain. Its addition is not "vandalism" as the recent edit suggests, though its removal may be.

Speaking as the person who created this article, I have to agree with the first user -- I don't see the propriety in keeping the NFL team affiliations. These affiliations are continually subject to change and the article is not updated frequently enough to ensure there's no outdated and incorrect information regarding the team affiliations of former 'Canes. Besides, an interested user can just click on the link to the player's page, which should accurately state which team, if any, the player currently plays for. Also, please be sure to sign your future contributions to the talk page.-Brian Brockmeyer 00:57, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverted the affiliations. I think we have an emerging consensus that they shouldn't be included.-CaneMan 04:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks like we have a repeat anon vandal on our hands here.-66.254.232.219 21:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

In trying to maintain the NPOV, I have deleted this sentence:

"The 2001 Miami Hurricanes are universally considered one of the greatest teams in the history of college football, and some would say the greatest."

Yeah, I am a fan of the Hurricanes and I have never heard that claim before. The few greatest college teams of all times discussion I've heard or seen on TV never even mentioned this team. Rooting for a team is fine, but not for a Wikipedia article. Sorry.

L pour soi 18:52, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

You must not be much of a college football fan then. Did you not see the result of the USC: Place in History series? Of all the teams of the past 50+ years, 2001 Miami was the only team voted a victor against 2005 USC--and handily so [1]. Not to mention Herbstreit deemed them the greatest squad in modern college football. That 2001 Miami is considered one of the greatest teams in CFB history is beyond dispute.-RicardoTubbs 21:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

In the "NFL U" section, I removed the word "unrivaled" from the sentence "Miami has had unrivaled success in producing players who go on to the National Football League.", though an anon user keeps reverting it back. Many schools such as Notre Dame, Florida State, Michigan, SC have had just as much success spanning the decades that the draft has been in place. The article accurately reflects the recent success in the first round of several drafts, but fails to recognize that there are several rounds after that in which players make the leap into the NFL. AriGold 21:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, since 1980, no college football team has had anywhere near the success at producing NFL draft picks as the Miami Hurricanes. I will have to find the research I have done on this and get back to you all. --Mcmachete 19:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

• "Actually, since 1980, no college football team has had anywhere near the success at producing NFL draft picks as the Miami Hurricanes." Yes, but the draft did not begin in 1980. If you only go back 25 years, Miami may have had the most players drafted, but, the draft began in 1936. Picking and choosing certain years to make an argument is what makes some of the "NFL U" stuff in the article nnpov. If you go back to the beginning of the NFL draft, Miami is by no means the most successful team in the draft. If you look at this years draft, Miami was by far not the most successful. But yes, if you pick and choose certain years, Miami was the most successful. Do you not see the problem with that? Going back through the history of the draft, 1936 through 4:33 p.m. EST today), Miami comes in at #10 on the list of most players drafted, and they have a LONG way to go before they come close to being #1.

1. Notre Dame- 450 players drafted
2. USC- 430
3. Ohio State- 372
4. Oklahoma- 327
5. Nebraska- 320
6. Michigan- 317
7. Tennessee- 309
8. Penn State- 305
9. Texas- 299
10. Miami- 285
AriGold 20:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

• This is one of the most disgustingly slated articles I have ever seen. How can this be allowed to happen on Wikipedia?!? This is supossed to be an online encyclopedia, not a recruiting tool. Gimme a break. Whoever is in charge, get this crap fixed. Cuz I know nobody wants me to do it. If I did I'd totally erase all of the "NFL U" crap. Disgraceful. J-Dog 18:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC

• i hate to hear about anybody talking about draft picks at a college before 70. The parity in college football has completely changed, and miami did in 20 years what no other team will ever do. if anything, miami CREATED the disparity by being another independent (along with Penn State and notre dame), and i cannot think of another program that could rebuild from 67 scholarships under butch davis being taken away an being robbed of a 3-peat (should have played OK in orange bowl in 2000, beat fsu heads up, won in 2001, should have won 2002. if anything this program has been robbed because of an image that was created 8 years before, they paid their dues, and still got the short end of the stick. for such a small school to rebuild, words cannot describe. that is why you say "nfl u." these guys came in trust of the program, fsu, uf, ucla, oklahoma, would all look better than um. but it was the mystique. this team came out of nowhere in '82 and won the whole thing, proceded to win 4 of 10 national titles....with a shot to win more. the list of players that played on those teams compare to the "new gen" that were drafted is incomparable. the past 24 years of this program are unparalleled in my opinion because of that. also, arigold, there were 4 conferences in the nation back in the 30's. and i also find it ironic that a bunch of those team's best ones were ran over by UM.

Ohio State

With all due respect, this article reads like an advertisement. It mentions the team's record and its last National championship, but it should mention the hype over the next championship bowl game and its lost, it reads like it never happen. Coker went into the game undefeated. It also ended a winning streak. Stephen Rodgers--65.24.77.104 03:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

2005 + 2006

In an effort to consolidate the article a bit, I'm going to give the sections on the 2005 and 2006 teams their own articles. This seems to be the general treatment, as I've noticed it down with LSU, Texas, USC, etc. I'll try and condense the sections into a paragraph to add to the history section here, then provide a wiki link to the new pages if users want to see a more in-depth treatment of the 2005 and 2006 seasons.-DSJ2 21:14, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Players

Does anyone have any objection if I move the list of past Hurricane players to its own article? I think it would help shorten the article considerably since there are so many notable 'Canes who went on to play in the NFL!-PassionoftheDamon 03:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Brawl record

why does someone keep removing their brawl record? (in the infobox) --24.178.78.17 21:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC) if it's incorrect, the least you could do is correct it.

This information in unnecessary Cablebfg 21:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Question on terminology and peacock words

I recently removed the term "all-time" from the phrase "Miami holds the all-time advantage..." since it's unclear to me what that phrase actually adds, other than boosterism, which is not allowed on wikipedia. The score is there; my question is why the numbers can't speak for themselves. If someone can explain "all-time" as a technical term in sports, I'll be glad to learn something new. I'll wait one day before reverting if no explanation is forthcoming. A note to the editor who threatened me (User:PassionoftheDamon): please use talk pages for working through a dispute. --Anthony Krupp 13:44, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

You need to familiarize yourself with the concept of peacock terms. Referring to a 29-21 advantage in the all-time series between Miami and Florida State is hardly a peacock phrase. Perhaps you're new to the sports world, but the historical series between two teams is typically called the all-time series, and the team that holds the edge holds the "all-time advantage" [2] [3] [4] [5][6] You've been warned. If you persist in vandalizing the page, you will be reported.-PassionoftheDamon 18:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

You have again failed to assume good faith. Your explanation that a historical series is typically called the all-time series completely satisfies me. Thanks for (finally) explaining that. Your rude statement ("You've been warned") is uncalled for, given that I specifically asked you to please explain the term. Your threat is empty, since I have never vandalized that page. People who throw around terms as loosely as you do tend not to fare well here. Good luck with that. -Anthony Krupp 18:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't fail to assume good faith; you took care of that when you edited in bad faith with such edit summaries as "b.s." and "hardly called for." You vandalized the page, I called you on it, now it's over. Vandalism is not appreciated here at Wikipedia. Good luck with that going forward.-PassionoftheDamon 22:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I see that I could have asked about the terminology before editing, but the edit was in good faith, and any reasonable person who would look at the history would see that. After learning from you that the term in question is a usual sports term, I have not removed it. But a mistaken good-faith edit is not the same as vandalism, and I've tired of repeating that to you. I'm sure you'll now feel the need to add yet another comment, or call me another name (a "bad-faith editor," on both of our talk pages), but I'm done talking with you. I trust we both have work to do and others to talk to, so I at least will get to that now. Ciao. -Anthony Krupp 04:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

We both know otherwise.-PassionoftheDamon 05:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

On defining vandalism to this article

I recently noted that PassionoftheDamon reverted a change by User:74.229.5.6, in which the list of rivalries was expanded to include FIU's Golden Panthers. (Here is the diff: [7]) In his reversion, PassionoftheDamon provided this edit summary: "rv vandal." My question is whether User:74.229.5.6's edit was (1) correct, (2) mistaken, or (3) vandalism? I don't see evidence for concluding (3), as PassionoftheDamon did. Do others have thoughts on this? --Anthony Krupp 15:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

It might be useful to read this wikipedia policy regarding the ownership of articles. -Anthony Krupp 16:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverting my Edits

I made numerous edits from fixing errors in spelling and grammar, to easing some bias, clearing some points, adding information, reverting issues. PassionoftheDamon just reverted all these edits that i spent quite some time making. If there is a specific adjustment you'd like to make, Passion, I recommend making that single change instead of reverting all the edits. I'm no joker. I've contributed to this page for almost a year, including some significant contributions in April. I'm reverting back to my edits. I didn't see too many of the edits as being controversial, but if they are, let's discuss. But throwing out all the edits because you don't like one or two is ridiculous. Anyway, I think we share the same intentions in making this wiki page better, so let's figure this out. --Mcmachete 19:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

For one, Cleveland Gary didn't score a controversial "touchdown" in the 1988 Miami-Notre Dame game. He was controversially ruled to have fumbled the ball, even though it appeared on replays that his knee was down. Referring to the play as a "touchdown" and saying the fumble call was "incorrect" is gratuitous POV. Labeling the referee's call "controversial" and pointing out that Gary appeared to be down is good enough. Second, Ken Dorsey had nothing to do with the Quarterback U moniker. That was a nickname that developed during the 80s and 90s. I also had a problem with your use of the word "dynamic" in describing last year's victory over VT. It seemed a bit awkward in that context and superflous in light of the win being described as a "dismantling" just a few words later. I've reverted those specific edits. The rest of your edits are both unobjectionable and helpful.-PassionoftheDamon 23:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with most of your edits. But regarding Dorsey: the media used used the "Quarterback U" moniker continuously after the '01 championship and through the '02 season leading up to his heisman nomination. Though he may not be why that name was created, like "NFL U," Dorsey continued the lineage. I'd keep him on the list. --Mcmachete 00:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with that, but I believe the language reads something like "the designation came about as a result of the program turning out a number of high-profile quarterback prospects in succession." While Dorsey no doubt continued the Quarterback U. lineage, the nickname predated his career. Thus, we can't really include him among the QBs responsible for the establishment of the nickname. I'd have no problem though with an extra line saying something like, "Miami's proud quarterback tradition was continued/carried forward most recently by Ken Dorsey."-PassionoftheDamon 04:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

That could work, though with that in mind, "Quarterback U" I believe was coined circa '86 with Vinny, so Walsh, Erickson, Torretta, et al would be part of that second sentence. Or, preferably, we can find a way to include all the quarterbacks together in the same line. --Mcmachete 09:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Official Colors

Aren't the official colors Orange, Green, and WHITE. The Orange Tree: Green for the leaves, Orange for the fruit, and white for the blossom... That's what they were originally, though white could have been officially dropped as a color. --Mcmachete 09:46, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I see a third color is not an option. I imagine that's why it's excluded? --Mcmachete 09:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

If anyone knows the information, I'd like to know what Miami's original colors were. I know that at least in the 60's, their colors were green and gold, not orange.

Some Maintenance

I'm just cleaning some stuff up. The article is a bit too long and some of the wording is bad. I also moved NFL U and all that stuff under traditions instead of keeping it under it's own heading. Drew1830 17:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Some maintenance has turned into a major overhaul. I'm adding some pics that I have and cutting some extraneous paragraphs. Just trying to clean it up a bit. Drew1830 06:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Thug U

I can't believe there is a whole section on "NFL U" but nowhere is the nickname "Thug U" found in this article. That's a WAY more popular nickname! Google both and you will get way more hits with Thug U. 131.46.41.71 15:12, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

History section

Many parts of the history section look like they have been copied and pasted from this webpage. Unless permission was given by the author (Jim Martz) to add his work to this article, it would be a copyright violation otherwise. Please rephrase, or at least remove, the sections that have been copied word for word. Also, the section is getting overly large for this article. Perhaps a new article can be created? BlueAg09 (Talk) 05:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

POV regarding removal of names

I have edited the section about Shannon removing the names from the back of players jerseys. It semmed to only give one POV on the issue, instead of giving both sides (see the Leaving Orange Bowl section for an example of using both sides of an issue in the description). I think both sides should be represented, or neither.

==Putting in unpleasant facts is NOT vandalism Contrary to what the homer editor McMachete says, my edits WERE NOT VANDALISM. Vandalism is adding things like "penis" into the middle of a section, NOT adding facts to complete the story. Further, they do not violate the trivialities policy. And unsourced? HARDLY ANYTHING in this entire article which was ripped off from this webpage is sourced? Don't you see how hypocritical it is to delete "unsourced" unpleasant facts while ignoring the rest? I don't think you have enough distance from the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.67.223.78 (talk) 15:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

You are correct: putting in unpleasant facts is not vandalism. However, what is abuse is your continued efforts to make these changes and start an edit war (WP:3RR). You call me a homer, however your sole purpose is to place these so-called unpleasant facts into the article and change wording/phrasing into more negative terms (WP:POV), as you do not make any efforts to make any other edits. This article is NOT a repository of all tidbits of Miami Football (WP:NOT, WP:IINFO). There are plenty of unpleasant facts in this article, including controversy and tragedies sections. For further, expansive details, one may see specific season articles such as 2006 Miami Hurricanes football team. To your delight, you will see the "stomping" of the Louisville logo and the LSU fight, etc. This article serves as an overview of Miami Hurricanes football and CAN NOT be a complete, exhaustive history. Discontinue your revert edits and insults immediately. --mc machete 15:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

You are the ultimate in doublespeak and hypocrisy. There was no "edit war" until you undid, wholesale, my edits without adequate explanation or subtlety. If you want to end the "edit war," then stop making your biased POV undo's. It really is as simple as that. Again, it is clear that you need some distance from the wiki subjects that you edit. If you think that there are too many details about a specific season, then why don't you delete all the details and instead link to the separate season? Why only delete the negatives? If it is not a complete, exhaustive history, then why do you add back in a duplicate mention of "5 national championships?"