Talk:Capital punishment by the United States federal government
I can't find a list of military executions online. Does anyone know of one? Rmhermen 01:48, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)
I'd rather see lists of persons executed than of "individuals" executed. "Individual" sounds cutesy, like something an 8th-grade social studies teacher would say in order to prove he knows bigger words than "person". Michael Hardy 23:23, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC) (originally posted on Talk:Seth Ilys)
Really? I don't have that sense at all. I think, to many people, "peoples" still sounds rather contrived (we run into the whole person/persons/people/peoples plural debacle, and that, I think, could be confusing :). The trouble, of course, is coming up with a NPOV noun to describe executed... umm... folks. If there was one, I'd switch to it in a heartbeat. -Seth Ilys 00:27, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I am removing the entry in regards to Williams, as he was executed by the State of California, not the United States Government. Jon Cates 22:13, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Since this article refers only to federal executions, I think this should be made clear in the title. Many people, especially outside the US, would not recognize a distinction between "by the United States" and "in the United States". The state governments, after all, are a part of the US. If a reader does not pay attention to the opening paragraph, he/she may conclude that only 3 people have been executed in the US since 1963. I propose changing the title to List of individuals executed by the federal government of the United States. Mtford 10:19, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- The States are not the United States. We are here to serve our readers; we are not the Simple Wikipedia. The present title is correct, short, linkable, and clearly explained. Oppose; I might be persuaded to support List of individuals executed by the United States Government. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose. Where is the confusion? The meaning of 'the United States' is clear and it does not mean individual states. If this is not clear, we have a major renaming task ahead of us! Vegaswikian 16:22, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- The confusion arises because many readers will think of the United States as a place in North America, rather than the name of one of the 51 civilian jurisdictions within that country. At least that's how I initially read the title as a non-American. I do understand that the United States (singular proper noun) is not equivalent to the fifty states (which confusingly happen to be "united") - and I know that the federal government has its own jurisdiction. Nonetheless, many competent native English speakers are likely to be misled, because they are used to thinking of the US as a country rather than a jurisdiction. Knowledge of the English language does not imply detailed knowledge of the United States, so I'm not arguing for the style of the Simple Wikipedia. How would a typical well-educated American reader interpret the title List of individuals executed by Tajikstan (or indeed Canada)? Or suppose you heard on the evening news that a certain number of people had been "executed by Iran" in the past 40 years; would you feel deceived if you later discovered that the number of people "executed lawfully in Iran" over the same period was 100 times greater? That example is probably not true; however, based on my experience of the UK (which has no "federal" courts), I would instinctively assume that Tajikstan or Iran refers to the entire political structure governing a geographical area on the map, which may include one or more jurisdictions. The structure which governs the space between Canada and Mexico (+AK,HI), known geographically as the United States, includes 51 such jurisdictions. Many readers of this article will be interested in the worldwide implementation of the death penalty, so a good way to "serve our readers" would be to protect them from misleading statistics, and to expect some level of ignorance about the US judiciary. The current text is clear enough; the title is "minimally precise", but could definitely be clearer. I do not see the same potential for confusion with most other United States articles, so renaming this one would not be the thin end of a large wedge. Mtford 20:37, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I have just removed the link "executed by the United States" from the first sentence of the article, which was adding further confusion. It pointed to an article about capital punishment in the United States (i.e. by all jurisdictions), and not by the United States. Whoever put the inconsistent link there (which was nothing to do with me!) was presumably confused by the same issue that I'm trying to highlight. Whatever we decide about the title, the first sentence should probably use the same wording as the title. Mtford 14:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. I should perhaps add that I did misinterpret the title as being those persons killed by any government in the United States, whether it be state or federal, but perhaps that's just a sign of my ignorance in matters of American politics. --Stemonitis 13:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Source?
What is the source for the list of people executed? I found this: http://www.bop.gov/about/history/execchart.jsp from the Federal Bureau of Prisons. It is pretty different than what is listed on this page. I am updating the list to include the BOP members. If there isn't a source for the additional people, they should be removed. Amsibert (talk) 15:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't get it...?
It says "These are the twelve offenses punishable by death or another punishment in the United States Code:"...then it goes on to list obviously more than twelve offenses.